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If god wants us to believe in him, and has all power, why doesnt he make us all christian?

does his all power not fall under the category of creating his ideal of a perfect mind? does he have to give us the possibility of eternal punishment by making us choose with no evidence? please give me an original answer instead of saying he is the creator, and is therefore correct in all matters involving him.

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Look at it like this...would you rather have someone love you because they chose to, or because you ordered them to?
I'm just sayin...

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Ooooohhhhh! I love this answer. Morning to someone I chose to be friends with!
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He cannot make us all to become Christians because he has given us a choice. He has all the power to make each one of us do as he pleases but he decided to let us have a free will to decide what we want.

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then why punish those who don't believe in him? doesn't that make him defeat his own purposes? your given a choice, only to be forced to chose eternal bliss or eternal punishment.
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Because the truth is God is revealed to all people through the creation, so everyone is without excuse.
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so thanks to the fact that we exist, we should know god did it?
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Mi2Cents
No! That is not logical in any way. Existence doesn't prove deities exist.
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No one said existence "proves" a deity, existence just proves there has to be an origin. You keep forgetting, those who believe in God admit to the necessity of faith.
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wrathseed

God gave us free will. With this will we are no longer under the direct control of god because we would no longer have free will. God has a plan. God is inconcievable to a mortal mind. this is one of the reasons that god exists. All other religions besides Judaism does not hold true to this principle due to the fact that anyone with good imagination could invent the religion. The fact that god is hard to believe at times should further solidify your faith. As for evidence there is a verse I like to use for questions like this. isaiah 40:22 " it is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" this implies that the world was pronounced to be round in about 700 b.c and may have also been the inspiration for Christopher Columbus. it's all in the book.

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so i should believe in something un-provable? by the way, i view all bible quotes to be fabricated, so the only way to prove him to me is by evidence.
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There is nothing ultimately provable in this existence until we can prove the origin of this existence. That fact lines up perfectly with what the Bible teaches, doesn't prove it, just lines up with it.
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wrathseed
It says that the world is round! How do you fabricate that!
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i mean the statements directly related to god
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wrathseed
They ARE directly related to god. Besides you have no evidence of his non-existance while there is legitimate factual in the bible
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i have no proof for his existence in the bible, regardless of what it said he did. i do however have proof that the world is round. do you understand the simple logic in what i am saying?
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Christians for the most part believe in free will.

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If nobody said your post I was gonna. Free will it is.
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this is not helpful. i could believe in a cheese moon, but that doesn't make the moon out of cheese. what i mean is, your saying christians created free will through belief.
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There is no evidence of a cheese moon. There is all evidence of a creator.
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im not speaking in the literal
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Umm there is no evidence for a cheese moon, or a god creator.
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There's plenty of evidence, but no proof.
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Mi2Cents
Evidence can lead to proof. It can also lead astray if evidence is claimed as evidence when it is not evidence.
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Exactly, it could lead you into believing there is no God, or it could lead you to believe there is one true God. There is no way of knowing at this point, only believing. Which lines up really well with what the Bible teaches about the origin of this existence.
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now what fun with that be????

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Good one!
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lol
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Yvoneeny is right, we have the free will to chose what we will believe about our existence. If God really did create this existence, then all of creation is evidence of God's existence.

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but that's theoretical. i believe in the big bang idea, but just because we are here now does not prove me right, a flaw in the thing you are telling me now.
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Who said anything about proof? I thought we were talking evidence. There's as much evidence for one true God as there is for the big bang. The flaw in the big bang is: where did the stuff come from that went bang??
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well where did the stuff come from to create god? i dont stand for all athiests when i say i think i know a (stupid) way the big bang could have happened (knowing it is as flawed as the god idea) my idea is as follows: what defines nothing? the absence of something right? so there would have had to be something for there to be nothing. and because there was an infinity of nothing, there would have had to be an infinity of something too.
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I like your effort, but our scientific evidence we have from this existence shows it's unreasonable for something to come from nothing. Belief in God acknowledges the creator of this existence is something past our understanding, which lines up with what scientific evidence we have so far; which means it's not unreasonable to believe in one true God.
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that only tells me that nobodey knows how we started, only that christians say god came before.
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Now you're getting it, no one does know. Those who deny God have been trying to prove God didn't do it, but no success so far. The Bible teaches God is our origin and you can only know God in this existence (there's another existence coming) through faith. That teaching lines up perfectly with the scientific evidence we have, so far.
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Mi2Cents
Let me chime in here. Say I claim I saw a ghost, which would be incredible since it would prove if true, that death may not necessarily be the end of our existence. Say my wife didn't see it and doesn't believe in ghosts or life after death. Where does the burden of proof lie: on my shoulders to prove the extraordinary; or on hers to prove me wrong? Extraordinary claims must be proven by those claiming them, not disproved by skeptics. If I said a teapot was orbiting the sun between the Earth and Mars, is it truth by default because you can't prove me wrong? If I believe the universe was created by a giant pink elephant, am I right because you can't disprove it???
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wrathseed
By this kid's logic then the universe doesn't exist. All of those pictures are fabricated.
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To be credible, an assertion needs evidence. All of this existence, plus all of our scientific observation of this existence, provides a credible case for a creator; as opposed to orbiting teapots and pink elephants.
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wrathseed
But they question it on the basis of science which then leads back to god.
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wrathseed
That is why christianity is growing
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will you rephrase: But they question it on the basis of science which then leads back to god. what is it?
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Mi2Cents
Our existence in no way proves the existence of a supernatural creator. I have no idea how you can reason that. One in no way leads to the other. Here's your fallible logic: all things come from somewhere (based on human understanding so far). So the universe must have come from somewhere. Instead of trying to find out how or where, you immediately insist something without any reasoning that lead to your amazing discovery (or lack of). I say a pink elephant created the universe. No difference between you and I on where our ideas came from. Neither has any explanation except for "Well, seems reasonable". Since when is truth based upon guessing?
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Mi2Cents
Science does NOT lead to God. Science is actual discovery about our universe, how it works, and cause and effect. Humans had to work hard throughout time to know more and more, to correct errors. You throw all that out and guess at something completely from your imagination. Not the road to understanding.
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Mi2Cents
All religion is dying.
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You just can't seem to understand I'm not saying there is any proof of a creator. All of this existence can be reasonably construed as evidence of a creator. This is irrefutable at this point in our scientific knowledge.
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so your saying there is no proof of a creator, and yet we should still believe in him, because there is no other alternative in your mind? that doesn't work for me.
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You have to make up your own mind. I believe if you are honest with yourself you will acknowledge the one true God and from there you will be convicted of your sin and from there you will fall upon the mercy of the one true God (which is the safest place to be). God will then lead you to Christ through the Holy Spirit.
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please do not divert from the point im making. give me a reason that i am wrong, instead saying i will figure it out.
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That is the point, you say you have no proof of God, so what, you don't have any real proof of anything else either. I know we have so-called proof of the earth being round, but does our knowledge of the earth prove how it was made?? So ultimately the things we think we know now are subject to change as we make new discoveries on our way to finding our origin. Every person has to decide for themselves what they will believe, some people decide to believe there isn't anything to believe, but that is the same as any religion. That's what bothers me about atheists, they sneer at the beliefs of others, when they have their own religious beliefs even though they refuse to call it religion.
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nope. it is our goal to disprove the outrages claims made by christains respectfully, no matter what you think we are doing
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But by your own rules/commandments you have no logical standing to call Christian claims outrageous. Your own belief that Christian beliefs are outrageous can be called outrageous.
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Hello. Responding a year later, with vastly improved grammatical skills, a great fondness for logic and science, and a year or so of experience arguing with and debating various people and religions via the internet. However, If you had been more aggressive, (As many of the people that inhabit the internet are) I'm not sure if this path would have been the one that I have followed.
I'd like to thank you in particular, Missourian, for being one of the first people to humor my incessant questioning, giving me a larger bank of knowledge to work and learn from.
On a side note, It's very comforting to read the comments I made, seeing as they are FAR more intelligent than I assumed I was capable of making (I end up hating who I was a month or so before the moment I am thinking about it. Weird.)
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He won't force us into anything. He loves us so much that He gives us the choice to believe in Him or not. That's true love. And yes, He wants to have a relationship with us, but He won't force us into it. He gives us choices.

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he loves us so much to the point where he would torture us eternally if we do not believe? this story makes sense if there was no "hell"
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He doesn't torture or punish us, He punishes our sin. He loves us too much just to punish "us".
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so we will be fine while our sin is tortured? then why do i her so many storys about not believing you will go to hell?
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It's not about not believing in God, it's about rejecting the atonement for your sin by the Son of God. You get to answer for your own sin, or Christ answers for it. Now you wouldn't want a righteous God to overlook all evil would you?
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and the only way for our sin to be answered is by the son of god to be hung on a cross?
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That's what the Bible teaches. Only the Son of God could answer for someone else's sin, because everyone else has their own sin to answer for.
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so we could not answer for our sin anywhere other than from Jesus and from hell?
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That's what the Bible teaches. You really wouldn't want a God who overlooked evil would you?
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i wouldn't want a god that either punishes his son instead of you, or tortures you for all eternity, or sends you to a heaven only the people without sin can access. that is not a god i want to live under.
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As you live your life and do wrong things, like we all do, maybe you'll come to appreciate the Love God showed by sending his Son to atone for your wrongs. Or maybe you'll come to realize how offensive it to God for you to reject that act of love as something you don't need.
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his act of love? as far as i have seen, life is only a place filled with pain. i do not see how he can love us by putting us through life, then giving some of us eternal happiness, and some of us eternal hell. im more offensive that he would "design" the world to be so cruel.
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offended*
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The world is cursed because of man's free will and what man has done with it. People complain about God "allowing" all this evil and then complain because God is going to judge all evil by banishing it to an eternal Hell.
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He doesn't force us to do anything, we have a freedom to do what we want, and choose between right and wrong. He gives us that choice because he wants to test us.

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so he gives us a test to see if we are worthy of one of the two eternal extremes?and he just, "creates" people within this test to be eternally rewarded or punished.
either this is a sick game, or god is an unjust jerk. (probably both) of course this is in your perspective, so this is only an idea.
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He's neither of those two. God is gentle and kind, which is why he gives us the freedom to chose.
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but life is a test right? cositering what you said above, god puts us in a puzzle, game, or test, (however you want to put it) and then expects us to un-doubtfully choose him over the hundreds of gods out there, AND be good in his little test.
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What's your point in this?? You asked for an answer, and I'm trying to give you one. But u keep insisting and arguing..??
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His point is the same as those who accused Christ of being a glutton and wine bibber because he ate and drank; and also accused John the Baptist of having a Devil because of his fasting.
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edmoltimore

It is very simple. He wants us to come to Him on our own. We love Him because He FIRST loved us. It's about fellowship.

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so people who decide not to love him are to be punished eternally? why cant we just walk away and become ghosts or something?
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edmoltimore
This walk is a walk of love. If your heart is harden, maybe it is time for you to ask God to reveal the Truth to you. We are dealing with supernatural stuff. The natural mind won't comprehend this message.
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then why are there churches? why do priests say they are "touched by god" if they cant comprehend what or who he is? if we cannot understand him, why beleive he is there?
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edmoltimore
Because He is the only one that can give you understanding. We are servants serving others. We are empowered by The Spirit of God. Not perfect by no means, but He is.
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then why do the preists get understanding? are you saying that the problem is in the process to understanding him that we fail? we could understand him if we were given a way? god provides that way?
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edmoltimore
Yes He does, that is why Jesus died. He the plan for salvation.
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so he killed his son for us to be spared. somehow, that doesn't sound just.
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It's not justice, it's mercy and grace.
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if it was mercy, he would have let everyone go, and delt with the fact humans could see evil. maybe he diddent want us to see his own evil?
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That is exactly what the serpent got Eve to believe. The choice is yours, you can glorify God as God, or you can choose to see your creator as nothing at all, or as the unexplained manipulation of some elements that came from who knows where, or as space aliens that had to have their own creator, but whatever you decide to believe is going to require faith.
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Yes, God is all powerful, and He did create perfect people.(Adam and Eve). They were given the choice to obey of disobey God and they chose disobedience. The Bible says we are without excuse because creation is the evidence. He is the one who gets to make the rules. Some people don't like this and reject God. Like the other said above He doesn't force us to love Him. Do you want your children to love you freely or be forced to?

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as with bible quotes, i do not want to hear Adam and Eve. but what is wrong with that story is (and i'm sorry if i missed something or it is a wrong story) that the devil tricked the humans without proper cause, therefore humans should not be punished, but the devil himself. i would like my children to chose, but my children would have proof of my existence, in that i am tangible and can directly communicate with the children.
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Humans were not tricked into thinking it was okay to eat the fruit, Eve was deceived into thinking God had lied to her and Adam followed after his wife.
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thank you for clarifying
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edmoltimore
It is time to sit down with the heavenly Father and have a long talk with Him. (prayer) He will provide you with the solid truth, I promise you that, because it happen for me.
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Heb...11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
God wants us to choose and use faith. It's like a friend is it a true friend If they are forced to be a friend.
How would fill if you could force a woman to love you, is it true love or is it better if she chooses to love you. God wants us to choose us to love him.

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but to then force that women to be with an abusive person as consequence?
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What, please repeat
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your saying that a woman should be able to choose weather or not to be with you right? so im relating what your saying to the god idea, and saying she is either with you, or an abusive person.
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Well, God gave he's son for us and he keeps the devil from destroying us. So I love him with all my heart and he loves me even more than that. I will never turn my back on God.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
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I guess he just needed some excitement and drama in his life

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Does God have a "life"?
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Lol.. Good question, novelton
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Mi2Cents

God allows us free will, so if we question God's existence, we can get banished to hell forever. Actions of a loving deity.

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either your blind or sarcastic
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Choices of wayward children.
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You don't get banished to Hell for questioning God's existence, Hell is for those who reject what the Son of God did for them.
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and do you reject this idea by not believing its truthfulness?
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Mi2Cents
By a religious person's standards, yes. It is strange how people of faith cannot even agree amongst themselves the rules of God, heaven, and hell. What exactly gets you a ticket to hell? Not believing God exists? Then the Dalai Lama will burn. Sinning and not repenting before death? I'm still waiting for a consensus.
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Of course you reject something you believe is untrue. It won't cut much mustard with God to enumerate all the failings of other men and religions, what will matter is how you responded personally to God. As 2cents said, this has to come from your own belief, not someone else's.
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Despite there being a line between point A and B, the logic employed in your argument is flawed and therefore your conclusion is as well. I would suggest you study more, not listening to the input of other people on the matter, and instead seeking counsel from theologians who know rather than posers on the web. "God is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to salvation" is a verse that answers the issue with your basic premise. :)

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just because my logic is flawed (and trust me i know it is) does not make yours any less flawed. do not expect more from me than what i already know, witch is little thanks to the fact that i'm 13. i do not listen to other people, besides the local atheist group. however thanks to my lesser comprehension skills, i do not fully understand the arguments going on in the videos, and instead decided to experience an argument for myself. but do not categorize me by age, because i will do my best to challenge your "logic"
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Good luck kid :)
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Mi2Cents
Read The God Delusion book. If you want the truth, that is. It provides many arguments against religion in general and deities as a whole. Dump religion, kid. Have the courage to live your life based on your own beliefs - not those forced upon you. You'll be stronger for it.
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i am atheist. i have been for a while. i would love to read it, and thank you for the suggestion
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Also, the question could just as easily have been posed why God didn't make everyone Muslim.
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true, but i have learned a lot sence i had posted the question. i never knew god was supported by other religions
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Mi2Cents
I cannot stress this more: be who you want to be based on your own morals. Don't give in to pressure of punishment after death. If you do this, you will have no use for religion.
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Good one Novel lol
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I can not stress this more.... If you believe that Jesus died for your sins there is no punishment after death. Have faith. Take a leap.
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So that we can choose Him.

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what if we dont?
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Mi2Cents
What happens if you choose not to believe in God is open to interpretation. Some say you'll go to hell. Some say God forgives and when you die, you discover the truth and may still live with Him. I'm an atheist. If He does exist, I'd hope He'd be understanding and merciful, if He's as great as Christians believe.
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well if that is true, then why is the same not true for heaven? and who says (besides christians) that god is good? what if he doesent care? i wouldent know why, but why not?
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The bible is a continuing story of a God who just wants His people to be obedient so that they can have all the blessings that He ever intended for them. He created us to love.
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to be obediant? that sounds like slave labor. thats not what it is, but thats what your making it sound like
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The only work were supposed to do for Him is to tell others about the saving love of Jesus. By obedient I mean the Ten Commandment and Jesus' new command of love the Lord with all your heart,soul,and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. It's really a lot of being loving and kind and helpful. He just asks that you acknowledge that Jesus died for your sins and rose again.
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Mi2Cents
Kid, don't expect to find answers to supernatural questions anywhere. No one knows if anything lies outside what we think of as reality. Consider what you think is most PROBABLE, most REASONABLE. Then go with that. That's why I'm an atheist; religion can offer myth and legend. Never been good enough or acceptable for me to explain anything. If you don't believe in Greek gods, how can you believe in others?
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Hey 2cents, sounds like you believe in not believing. It must be confusing to have faith in not having any faith.
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Mi2Cents
Yeah, you are right. I believe in reason, not myths. I don't have faith in religion. It has caused too many wars, genocide (Hitler), hate, suicide bombers. People should be moral based on one thing: what they think is right for themselves. Not because anyone scares them into morality.
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What you think is moral might be at the very bottom of my list of moral things and I'm sure there were murders who were doing what was "right for them".
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Mi2Cents
Murderers like people who burned witches and fought wars in the name of the Christian God? You mean those people? Yeah, great morals. Don't even start on that path. There are mixed up people in the world and religion has caused a LOT of it. How about killing abortion doctors to prevent abortions of some cells you might call a baby (I call it nothing)? Yeah, religion churns out great people.
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2cents, The Bible teaches God asks us to come and reason with God and try God. I know you have a hard time coping with the fact that you are playing on the same level as those you despise as unreasonable, but the truth is all you have is your faith in what you think is right, which makes you just as unreasonable as the rest of us humans.
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actually, me and 2cents are looking at it through the standpoint that you have to prove god to us, and since you have so far failed to do that, we will not believe in him. we see that you are making an effort to explain your way of thinking, but it does not tell us the whole story. only that god is the ultimate creator, he is all powerful, and don't screw with him or you will get effed. despite the fact that we cannot say where the universe came from, we still try to explain it reasonably, instead of saying sky-daddy did it.
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You know if you really are just some pissed off kid their ideas and rules look really good right about know... What are you going to tell you kids about death one day? "Hey don't be scared its just a box and they bury you in the ground and then you rot and there's nothing after that. " When they want to know why their friends might have eternal life and have parents that seem a lot less " pissed off all the time"? Yuk, I do not like using that word but I did cause its your name.
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I haven't seen any of the reasonable explanations pokid is referring to. At least a belief in one true God acknowledges the obvious magnitude of this existence and our ignorance of it. 2cents and pokid remind me of the flat earthers, they won't look past what they can see with their eyes; sad that.
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God doesn't want everyone to be Christian because God wants his chosen People, Israel, to be Jewish and obey His Commandments. And if you're non-Jewish, that's okay with God (as long as you keep the Noahide law), but He doesn't care what you are. So you're okay with God (again, if you keep the Noahide law) whether you're Buddhist, Christian, Muslim or whatever.

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that's all fine and dandy, until you bring in the idea that atheists are to go to hell
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I never said that... The Jewish concept of hell is very different from the Christian one.
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The only people going to Hell are the ones who deny their need for an atonement for their own sin.
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denial and non beleif are different
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And me and the other gays in the world. I never decided to be gay, I just am. Unless said Bible wasn't exactly accurate (may have just been stuck in by the people who wrote it, but may not have liked gays, or maybe it was the people after who may have changed said Bible).
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Mi2Cents
Kid, try these if you want reasonable commandments:

Atheist Ten Commandments

In all things, strive to cause no harm. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness, and respect.

Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

Live life with a sense of joy and wonder. Always seek to be learning something new.

Test all things. Always check your ideas against the facts and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be lead blindly by others.

Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

Do not discriminate or oppress on the basis of sex, race, or species.

Do not indoctrinate your children. Teach them how to think for themselves, how to evaluate evidence, and how to disagree with you.

Enjoy your own sex life (so long as it damages nobody else) and leave others to enjoy theirs in private whatever their inclinations, which are none of your business.

Value the future on a timescale longer than your own.
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Hear hear
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So how do your commandments line up with declaring it unreasonable to believe in one true God? Shouldn't you question that assertion and be open to that belief?
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When did I declare that?
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So basically you can do anything and answer to no one. Oh yeah and be really nice and tell any one else who doesn't want to follow the rules set forth by our Almighty Creator, then come on over. We made new rules and it's all ok. Because the commandments were to strict?
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God gave his Law to the Jewish people to obey. He didn't give the other nations any laws, except the Noahide law. If you're non-Jewish, you are in good standing with God if you keep the Noahide law. If you want more with God, you may choose to accept Him, convert to Judaism and obey God's Commandments. If you don't want to, that's fine with God, bug don't delude yourself God cares about what you do, as long as you don't violate the Noahide law.
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Because I still have a middle finger. As Five Finger Death Punch said "Fist in the air, and a finger to the sky" on the song Anerican Capitalist.

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Because he gives us our free agency. Men are free according to the flesh to choose.

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God gave us all the wonderful gift of free will, and with that free will comes the possibility to reject God or choose Him. He permits sin and evil, even though He hates it. God is not 51% love and 49% justice. He is 100% love and 100% justice. He will not (indeed, cannot) perform an injustice. To take away our free will and make us all a Christian would be an injustice because He Himself gave us the choice to choose or reject Him.

Hope this helps!

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