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If a person has not read the bible and studied its context, how can they make an informed decision as to wether its believable or not?

I see so many comments by people who have never read the bible professing with passion how bogus it is.

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FirstBorn1

Simple..... THEY CAN'T.

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A big, bright, and shiny green!
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FirstBorn1
Hey, my friend, a big, bright, shiny smile to ya! :)
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We base our decision on what we see projected by those who say they follow the Bible. People have used the Bible to subjugate women, blacks, and homosexuals--even other Christians. Those Christians who don't do those those types of things are just fine in my book. It's the ones who wield the Bible as a weapon that incur my wrath.
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FirstBorn1
Yes, of course.... With all due respect. :)
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magdalene
Short, clear, TRUE answer, FirstBorn! Green!
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FirstBorn1
Hi Friends..... I was hoping to stay out of trouble with this answer. Chuckle
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FirstBorn1
Hi wired.,,. Thankyou... It's all good. How about... Simply good? Oh now I'm confusing myself!
You started it. TeeHee.
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Have these people stated that they haven't read the bible? While it's possible that you know they haven't read it, many atheists on here that I've seen have proclaimed that they have read it... I believe you're assuming.

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Most claim they have, but as backwards and outlandish as some comments are it does make me wonder, I do know there are some who have read it and although our opinions are different their views are at least intelligent, I'm referring to those who just make up their own version of what it says and then try to belittle us with it.
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@tonya: There are also Christians who make up things the Bible says. Assumptions are made on both sides of the fence.
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have you read the poetic edda? or satanic bible? or the korran? do you believe these? how do you know they are not true.

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I don't try to tell them what their books say or pretend I know.
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so why dont you understand that we non believers dont care what the bible says, just like you dont care what these books say.
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I do understand you don't care, what I don't understand is why you guys are always the first to jump in to answer questions about the bible when you really have no basis to formulate a credible or valuable answer, and then have the nerve to tell us we are wrong for answering each other!
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it works both ways you know. we do it becasue religious people are ALWAYS bringing god into the conversation and saying we are going to hell and making it an unpleasant time for everyone. non-religous folke arent the ones who start it. no wonder there is so much resentment
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I agree there, it does work both ways, but everyone knows that Christians base faith from the bible, we aren't condemning people to hell, it isn't OUR persecution, nonbelievers assume we think they are going to hell... first of all, we can't say that with certainty, second, if nonbelievers don't believe in hell anyway what's with all the sensitivity? I don't believe in Santa but I wouldn't blow a fuse if someone said I was going to the north pole when I die, it's a contradiction to say you don't care about our bible but to get mad when we follow what it says.
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it is not the fact the i get upset about hell it is more the fact the people say it so often and it is more the preaching that upsets me. i dont jam my beiefs at you why do christian feel they have the right to harass me witht theirs? you may not be the one doing this but you would be one of few that dont!!
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I promise to be one that dosnt. I don't believe cramming faith down someone's throat is the least bit productive, but we are dealing with a question and answer forum here. Christians and nonbelievers alike can be known to stir the pot, but just as you don't like being told your going to hell, I don't like being told I'm worshiping fairies and being brainwashed....I just wish people would answer the questions they are educated on and leave the name calling and demoralizing comments out if it. I like hearing opinions from both but not if either one is deliberately being counterproductive.
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@tonya: I have no issue with what anyone wants to believe, although I hold them to the same standards to which I hold myself, which is to be ready and willing to defend my stance if I voice it on a public forum. But more importantly, I care what others believe when those beliefs find their way into our secular law making process and affect the rights of others who do not share their beliefs. Then it becomes more than a personal belief. It becomes an imposition of religious dogma on non-believers--whether those non-believers are atheists or of some other faith. That's where the discussion turns from sharing views to defending the rights of others.
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I agree
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They probably haven't read through Darwin's notes on the theory of evolution either, but believe that. I'm guessing most people who believe in god haven't read them either.

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No, but I don't go around answering questions about Darwin's theory from someone who wants to know either.
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And yes I think your right about believing something they haven't read, I think it's an easy out if you ask me.
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Nice answer Steve you get one green for that!
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God did not make His Word unclear. The message of God's Word is perfectly clear. The reason that the Bible can sometimes be hard to understand is that we are all fallen beings, sin clouds and distorts our understanding and leads us to twist the Bible to our own liking.

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Amen
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Yes mam, I don't always get it right away myself.
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Where are you getting all this crap? Man is not fallen in any way! Well, maybe Christians, buy not Man in general!
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You must have read about Adam and Eve disobeying God.
"Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life". 1 Corinthians 15:22
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Man did fall, that's why we aren't in Eden now.
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Religion has set up rules to live by which no one can abide by. If man has fallen, it is only because man has failed to live up to the impossible and arbitrary rules established by religion. I mean really. "Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer..." (1 John 3:15)? "...whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other" (Matthew 5:39)? "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)?
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magdalene
Yes, Strawberry, that is true. Green!
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Every man is fallen. Just some of us don't mind admitting it.
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magdalene
lala, you just spoke a mouth FULL of wisdom! So true.
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Amen
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Nothing in the bible its fake because it has never been proved to be fake

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Amen
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Amen
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Ok... I'll give you that it has never been proven to be fake... but your point is mute. Virgin birth, turning water to wine, walking on water, healing people, multiplying food, dying and rising from the grave etc etc... From my perspective, these things aren't possible, but from your perspective they were. Your point is no different from me saying that fairies are real b/c no on has proven them to be fake....
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FirstBorn1
Nwarguy...... We can't SEE air but we know it exists.
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No offense Firstborn, but air is nothing like any of the examples that I described. I can feel air, I can color air with smoke and see how the air reacts...
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We didn't just make it up, these are events that were witnessed by nonbelievers, the bible isn't the only account of them. I wasn't in the civil war but I learned about it from accounts of people who were there, same goes with all of the historical events we are taught, I don't see anyone questioning that.
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To me it's not the miracles that are amazing, but the timing in which they happened. Nothing in them are that far of a strech to believe that they happened. To me it's more of a strech to believe most of what goes on in the heads of those making movies and tv sitcoms. But to the miracles. Water to wine-a seed is laid in the soil. It grows with sunlight, and WATER. with this water it produces a fruit. With this fruit comes wine. Not over night or even spontainiusly. But none the less water becoming wine. In the ressurection it has been represented in everything of the world around us. Especially in agriculture. The one seed must die in order to bring about an abundance of it's own kind. Not out of the ordinary for say of the actions, but out of the ordinary for how we expect them to happen.
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Well said doc
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@ tonya concerning the civil war. I understand your thinking behind this. Here's my view. There is something called the Epic of Gilgamesh, it was written long long long before the bible and talks about gods and amazing feats etc etc... according to that way of thinking... why should I not believe that happened as well and that is the truth? Also... history regarding the civil war has absolutely no impact on anyone's belief concerning life, eternity etc...
@doc, It may not be a stretch for you, but to many outside the Christian religion... it is all of those are quite a stretch.
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@tonya: I actually saw an article in the paper the other day which contained letters written by prisoners of war in Union camps where they talked of hands being lopped off and other heinous atrocities which were called into question by other accounts. History is written by the victors. For instance, the Battle of the Frigid River in the Roman Empire in 394 C.E. was the high water mark of polytheism in Europe. Until that decisive battle, Christianity or paganism as a primary societal influence could have gone either way. Had things turned out differently back in 394, perhaps our discussions and assumptions about religion might be quite different.
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I haven't read it so I can't say one way or another, but why can't the both be true? ( unless they contradict each other) but there are several books that were written, I'm not closed minded, I use a lot of resources to reference and study, I just know that what most call contradictions are really just a misunderstanding of the purpose of that particular book or gospel, things were left out for the sake of clarifying different accounts of different things, it takes years of study, it's not something you can do giving it a once over.
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So a deity, who wanted nothing more than for us--its creation--to know it loves us and wants us to worship it, would give us a book that takes years (I would say decades if you include the years of education and field research required to understand the meaning behind the words) to understand? Why be so obtuse?
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Isnt there more to you then could be learned in a weekend? Did it not take years to build a relationship with your spouse? Just because I've met my neighbor and know she has two kids and a husband and where they work does not mean I KNOW them, hid wants a personal relationship with us, he KNOWS us, is it really so bad he wants us to take the time to know him as well? A relationship with god isn't just about a book, it's about wanting to know him, it takes more then having a cup of coffee with a friend to get to know them. What I'm suggesting is that people think they can read bits and pieces and if they don't grasp the whole meaning then everything is wrong! it's like meeting a friend of a friend and after the introduction deciding everything good your friend said about that person is completely wrong.....and then in this case, telling everybody who knows this person that they are wrong to!
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The bible is full of promises and they are all ours

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Amen
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Green
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Everybody says you have to have proof to believe in god but no it's called faith

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Amen
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I agree
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@Vana: The animist aboriginals of Australia no only have faith that their spirits are real, but that they communicate with those spirits on a daily basis. Shouldn't we consider their faith to be just as real as Christian faith?
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No, Because The Missing
Key Ingredient In This
Scenario Described
Is J e s u s Christ.
He Makes The
Difference.
Glory 2
God.
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So claimed the followers of Horus, as the key ingredient of difference! Why not to have faith in Horus then?
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Horus didnt give his life for the forgiveness if your sins
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Amen! There are also comments from those who only read from their mind (still the tree of knowledge of good/evil) and not from their spirit using their mind (tree of Life). Then you give unbalance those who see His righteousness but not His Grace or see His Love and Grace only and miss His righteousness. We are all learning and being saved moment by moment.

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I was raised catholic and as an atheist have been forced to learn more just to deal with bible-thumpers( though I don't know why I care) Out of curiosity I,ve read most all of the faiths "handbooks" the more I learn the more it convinces me I'm right,

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Funny you say that, I was referring to you when I asked the question.
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" Judge not least ye be judged" my friend.
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I have had the same experience, caluvox--except I was protestant rather than Catholic.
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magdalene
Caluvox, I find it odd and rude that some people, not just you, but many feel the need to call christians names and some even declare how rude and nasty christians act, when we are called "Bible-thumpers" and whatever people feel like calling us. On the whole, I think we handle the rude behaviour rather well. Just wanted to mention that.
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I'm sorry magdalene, I 'm just so fed-up with being treated like I don't have a right to see the world for what it is. It's not a lie that I've had to learn all of the worlds faiths just to defend my way of life. Its not just Christian's but Muslim's, Jew's and Hindu's. And again I'm sorry I was rash with my statement.
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Caluvox: Great answer. Green for you. However, I tend to INSIST, that read the bible carefully, and you will lose your faith. Reading the bible without the veil of reverence and without the coil of fear for punishment, is sure to lead faith to ashtray.
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Christ.....here we go again.

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Why you talking to yourself?
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Lol. I understand me.
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I agree...here we go again. So sick of it-
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Agreed here we go again
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There are many people who not only read it, but also studied it extensively, did PhD's on it, and they don't believe in it. It has nothing to do with faith whether one has read it or not.

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And by the same token, there are many differing interpretations of the very same words which have spawned hundreds--if not thousands--of different sects of Christianity. How can one infallible book lead to so many different meanings? Of course, each sect will say they are the one, true way to worship.
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Well, of course, this position assumes that the Bible is some definitive source of information. The people who have studied the Bible and it's own evolution and origination have come to the conclusion that this 2000 year old text is largely a written copy of an oral history from the Jewish/Hebrew tradition in the Old Testament, and a compilation from early Christian leaders trying to convert diverse cultures and peoples by telling parables that they would understand. While there is a strong desire to have a easy to follow, black and white, text about right and wrong, Biblical scholars believe that that the text was never meant to be taken or read as anything more than a general life lesson, outlining principles for proper behavior.

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Not true, the ten commandments were a general guideline for living, the bible itself is a written account of proving gods existence. It is a witness to the life of Jesus and a witness to the fulfillment of prophesies. It is the word of god, translated from god himself by man.
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How many Christians have actually gone back to the original Aramaic and Greek texts and personally translated them in the context of the culture at the time that the words were written? Christians, like non-believers, tend to accept as true what others have said the words mean. My interpretation of scripture is based on what I was taught as a Christian and later as a Baha'i. It really doesn't matter what the intent of the scriptures were. What matters is how they are interpreted and put in practice in the daily lives of people who think they know the intent of the scriptures.

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I agree a thousand percent, some of the words we see had different meanings when it was written, changing completely the meaning behind the scripture. Example: "behold, the lord is coming soon" today, soon means in a short amount of time, then, the word soon meant suddenly without warning. Big difference!
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Reading Bible Without Benefit
Of The Leading, Guidance of
The Spirit of Christ Is Just
As Bad As Not Reading
Studying It. It Comes
To Life Only 2 Ones
Who Believe and
Receive King
Jesus A s
L o r d.
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Scripture Quote
---------------------------------------
Accordingly Philip, running up to him, heard [the man]
reading the prophet Isaiah and asked, Do you really understand what you are
reading? And he said, How is it possible for me to do so unless
someone explains it to me and guides me [in the right way]?
And he earnestly requested Philip to come up and sit beside him. (Acts 8:30, 31 AMP)

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FirstBorn1
Greenie and another Greenie if i could for your comment to Pious's answer. Well done my friend! :)

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Thanks FirstBorn1!
Enjoy The Rest
Of This Week
E n d :
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1Corinthians 2:14 "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Even if they read it they won't understand it for what it is.... The Word of God. They are trying to disprove it and tear it apart for selfish reasons and not being led by the Spirit.

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Amen!!!!
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true
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I always recommend reading the Bible, but for the opposite reasons you do. I lost count of how many times I've quoted that book only to have a believer tell me that's not actually in the Bible. I chuckle whenever I hear a story of an x-believer who lost faith after actually reading their holy book.

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That's thought provoking. Hence, if I may, the famous quote, "Carefully read, bible is the most potent force for atheism".
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I guess if I was going into it with the idea of wanting to use it against those who believe it to be true, I wouldn't be surprised I wasn't getting the same meanings they were.
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You don't understand, I recommend it even to those looking to strength their faith as I was.
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It's a question of individual perspective. Now, I read the bible, and I find that god so loved this world that he made up his mind to eternally damn the most of us. I have read this in the books called bible, and what shall I say to it? It’s always better to be honest. So, if I don’t believe the bible, had I not better say so? Had I not say, that in terms of intellectual rigour you couldn't ask for any worse than the bible, if I honestly believe thus? Yet, the Christian apologetics say that if I say so, I will regret it when I come to die. If that be true, doesn't it make the god of bible a hater of honesty? And, as far as I am concerned, whoever - gods and men alike - holds any man responsible for his honest conviction, has a deformed and distorted moral values.

A god who could create human understanding, could not be expected to produce a book that would universally agree with that creation, is profane. It is asking too much to insist that a god could write, dictate or inspire a book, that the majority of the mankind couldn't believe upon!!

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Spot On Pious, You Are
Absolutely Correct In
That So Many Hear
Yet Choose Not
To Believe.
So Sad.
-----------------------------------------
Scripture Quote
-----------------------------------------
But the gate is narrow (contracted by pressure) and the way
is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few
are those who find it. Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep,
but inside they are devouring wolves. You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick
grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? (Matthew 7:14-16 AMP)
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There is do much more to the bible than hell fire and brimstone, it absolutely does not say god plans to wipe out the majority, in fact the whole book says just the opposite, your mistaken to think god wants us all to go to hell, but what I really hear you saying is that you believed at one time and read the bible, then when you (right or wrong) came to the conclusion gods rules were impossible to follow and if left to your own devices you would go to hell, so rather than learn what it is exactly god wants from us or what dies salvation through Christ mean, you just decided its all fake and the rest of us are idiots?????
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Great answer pious, thumb's up.
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Tonya, I went to church for years. I listened to Sunday school teachers as a child, I listened to preachers, and have read parts of the bible, and all these things only made me more convinced that there isn't a god. But the truth is, you don't really need much knowledge on the subject to realize that you don't believe in it. Have you ever read the gospel of the FSM? Probably not, but you don't believe in it do you? It's just their beliefs and you may not understand them but you should still respect them.

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I do respect them, to say I haven't studied this religion or that religion and therefore I'm not fully educating myself either isn't true, I have chosen to believe in god and have found a source of information that builds in that, however, your saying you've read and studied and feel there is no god at all, while I respect your decision, my question is this, do you not believe in god based on the bible or have you not found a source yourself that relates more in line with how you believe? Was it easier to conclude god does not exist period then it would be to find answers to your questions. I hear all the time how this or that scripture is a controdiction so the bible is all wrong, I had the same questions but researched why this person said this and this person said that and I have found for myself that everything lines up through digging a little deeper, what I'm implying is that most ( not all) unbelievers stop before they uncover the truth, throw their hands in the air, and then assume those if us who kept digging to find the answers are full of it, and when we try to show you what you may not have seen, we are accused of cramming our religion down your throat. You want us to settle where you stopped and ignore the rest...
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I would dig deeper, but I know I don't believe in the supernatural. It doesn't matter how much of the bible I read, it just seems so fake to me.
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Can't help you there, I don't get that, but I pray first and don't go into it thinking its crap..... Maybe that's it.
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Accepting it as truth before hand would sure help believing it as you read it. However, that still doesn't get you around rationalizing the abominable stories with a just/loving god.
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