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Did god know that Adam and Eve would disobey his command in Eden, before he decided to create them?

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Because God has the ability to foreknow events does not mean that he is forced to use that ability any more than He is forced to use His almighty power all the time.God uses his power selectively to accomplish His will.He also uses His ability of foreknowledge selectively.Case in point; God had known about and had made statements regarding Abraham’s faith.However, it was only after Abraham attempted to offer his son Isaac in sacrifice at God’s command did God say “Now I do know that you are God-fearing.”The same was true of Adam and Eve.God warned them of consequences of disobedience, but he let them act as free moral agents in their course.The blame falls on Adam and Eve, not God. Some say God predestines all things.Then God would be responsible for planning out the lives and deaths (many in the most horrific of circumstances) of billions of people.This could not be true of a loving God.God did use His powers of foreknowledge in cases of certain individuals as is plainly stated in God’s word, but He does not predestine the lives of all people or why look both ways before crossing the street?

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good example
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Jenni18
Excellent answer.
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he had it coming thats why it was a test to see if they would ever listen to him

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Thank you. If god knew the result already, then what was left there to test?
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he waNted to test trust and responsubility
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But he already knew that they would fail the test, so why bother giving it to them (I think this is what pious is leading up to.
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Maybe God just put trust and respsibility upon them and then in contrast they disobey him to just give us all a message of free will and choice
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It manifests his greatness..?
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Because he GAVE US A FREE WILL and LIFE. even when he knew we would fail, he still showed us his un-deing mercy and grace. HE loves thats why he let us take the test even when he already knew the outcome.
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yupp

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Thank for your kind response.
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ur welcome
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It is God command, for a wisdom that only God know, to both Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit and God informed them that Satan is an enemy to them.

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Thanks & green for u. But, if god knew men would sin & Satan would lead them, then why did he create any of them, even after knowing that they both would suffer eternal torment at the end?
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magdalene
Love ya Pious. I used to wonder some of this stuff myself. I already knew Jesus as my Saviour when I wondered it and I just kinda layed it down and left it with Him for awhile and went on in my walk with Him. He had proved His Word in my life and in so many things that I'd seen and lived already and I just decided to leave it lay, because I had already seen by His active proof in my life that I could trust Him to perform His Word in my life. It's true that I trusted His Word first, BUT, I saw it worked out in my life too. IT WORKS! And, as time went by, I learned more and then more and I still have yet, more TO learn. I do believe that I will still be short of the knowing of some things when I draw that last breath. I'm sure I will be. Please, consider what I'm saying. I couldn't learn it all first and you won't be able to either. When one answer comes, following will be another question. And, it's great to want to know, but at some point, we realize every answer will not be attained. This question has been answered scripturally and well. And each child of God will know All the answers when we reach Heaven. That's where you go for All the answer, dear Pious. Otherwise, we would be All Knowing and Equal to God. That's not gonna happen. So, I just take what He has given me thus far and go with it!
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Thank u magdalene. But I just am not ready to take any authority on face value!!
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I think He did if he is supposed to know everything.

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Thank u very much.
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"He knows everything" God's knowledge is not merely greater than our own, but it is infinitely greater. He knows all things in totality.

Westminster Confession of Faith chapter III:
"God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established"

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Strawberry girl, I have to admit I am confused by your answer, for if God ordained all that is in existence, then how would He not of been the author of the sin that is in existence? please clarify. Thanks.
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SBG: thank u for your kind input. Green for you ma'am. But please make me clear, if god knew men would come to rebel him, along with satan, then why did he create any of them in the first place?
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Adam and Eve falling into sin does not mean that God is the author of sin, nor that he tempted Adam and Eve to sin (James 1:13). The fall serves the purpose of God's overall plan for creation and mankind. This, again, must be the case, or else the fall of mankind would never have happened.
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At the risk of sounding flippant, why not? For what reason or reasons should God have not created the devil even if he was going to fall? Just because God knows what will happen doesn't mean that the person (or angel) isn't free to make choices. Satan freely chose to rebel against God. God knew this would happen. Nevertheless, let me offer some possible reasons why God would create Satan even though He knew he would fall and rebel.
It was necessary to have the fall so that God could then have a reason to die for our sins thereby demonstrating that God can and does provide the greatest act of love which is to lay down one's life for his friend (John 15:13).
The fall of Satan provides yet another method for God to be glorified in that God can use sin to prove that sin is "bad" and that God's Word about righteousness is true.
If God is to have creatures with free will, then the risk of rebellion is part of that freedom. Satan had that freedom and used it to rebel.
If God had not created Satan and instead another angel fell, then we'd be asking why God made that angel knowing he would fall.
God has reasons about which we know nothing.
I know my children will act badly at times, but knowing that does not mean mean that I shouldn't have kids. Part of the risk of freedom is that rebellion will be a reality.http://carm.org/if-god-all-knowing-why-did-he-create-satan





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No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. It is lawlessness (1 John 3:4). God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun. It just isn't possible.
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Did Henry Ford know his car would kill people? Probably. Is he evil for making it? Probably not.
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he had to.. they say he knows all of our plan.. including that shooting in colorado. god planned it..

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FirstBorn1
With all due respect please, God did not plan that shooting in Colorado. It is not God's will that man sins, it is man's choice.
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thank you for correcting me. i been a little upset since the shooting..
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Thank u mindy. I totally agree with u. Green for u.
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sweetie god did not plan that shooting the devil works just a hard as god and im sure that was his plan not gods!!!
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god says you shall not murder...so NO that wasnt gods plan
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Logically, yes, If there is a universal deity that holds the answers to life the universe and everything, then, yes. Monotheist shouted the characteristics of a universal deity as an omnipotent, omni present one, the alpha and the omega, that is to say, the beginning of all things and the end of all things and everything in between, endowed with the sum of all knowledge, past present and future because it exists in them all at the same time. Logically, if anyone takes any 1 of these characteristics of power away from this deity of the universe, life and everything, it would not be an all knowing, all seeing deity, logically. tee hee.

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Thank u, sir. I am obliged.
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One of Jehovah's attributes is that he is omniscient=(all knowing)=================O LORD, you have examined my heart
and know everything about me. You know when I sit down or stand up.
You know my thoughts even when I?m far away. You see me when I travel
and when I rest at home.
You know everything I do. You know what I am going to say
even before I say it, LORD. You go before me and follow me.
You place your hand of blessing on my head. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too great for me to understand! I can never escape from your Spirit!
I can never get away from your presence! If I go up to heaven, you are there;
if I go down to the grave, you are there. (Psalm 139:1-8 NLT). After carful examination of Psalm139 yes he did know.

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Bobby please read Strawberrys comment and my reaction to it and help me understand this? Thanks.
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Thank u Bobby. It's always good to hear u.
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Thanks to you all it's a pleasure to be able to share with you all in a due respect.
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Oh" yeah cougar :0)
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magdalene
Definite Green. Some good answers on here. Can't argue with scripture! FirstBorn's I read first and it was great tool
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FirstBorn1
Hi Bobby.... Just wanted to poke my head in and say hi. I've been really busy lately so I'm really behind in touching base with my friends. It's always so nice to read you're answers.
Greeeenie and a smile. :)
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:0) thanks FB :0)
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FirstBorn1

God is omniscient, which literally means "all-knowing." Job 37:16; Psalm 139:2-4, 147:5; Proverbs 5:21; Isaiah 46:9-10; and 1 John 3:19-20 leave no doubt that God?s knowledge is infinite and that He knows everything that has happened in the past, is happening now, and will happen in the future
1. The rebellion of Satan and the fall of mankind were foreknown and foreordained by God.
2. Those who would become the people of God, the elect, were foreknown and foreordained by God.
3. The crucifixion of Christ, as atonement for God's people, was foreknown and foreordained by God.
To summarize, God knew that Satan would rebel and that Adam and Eve would sin in the Garden of Eden. With that knowledge, God still created Lucifer and Adam and Eve because creating them and ordaining the fall was part of His sovereign plan to manifest His glory in all its fullness. Even though the fall was foreknown and foreordained, our freedom in making choices is not violated because our free choices are the means by which God's will is carried out.

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So, god knew man and Satan both would rebel & yet created them? Why? Did god know that Satan and man both would choose their free will to sin before he gave free will to them? Do you find it obscure that god, even knowing that man would suffer mercilessly by the tricks of Satan, created them both?
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Thank you for the response FB. Green for u.
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FirstBorn1
How nice of you. Thankyou for the question. Have a great weekend. :)
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Yeah" lots of them :0)
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magdalene
I agreee with your answer completely!!!!! A big Green! And, I like to remind myself and others that it is not God's Will that any should perish, but that all should have everlasting life. It helped me and I hope it helps others too. So don't give up to soon.....The Truth was spoken in this answer!!!! given by FirstBorn. And Truth also...it is not His Will that any should perish. He is a good God, so don't dismiss Him because you feel you can't make it, ok? When Jesus knocks on the door of your heart, open the door and let Him enter. He loves ya. He loves me. And, good answer FirstBorn...so True. Thumbs up on your answer!
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yes im sure he knew...he is all knowing all seeing...it was a test for them not him

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So god knew they would sin and still created them? Why? To see them suffer?
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By the way, thank u so much for your kind response.
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your welcome:-)
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magdalene
Green.
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biblically, yes he did. which amazes me because hes a hypocrite. he stood there acting like it wouldnt happen. and its cruel too. its just like the movie saw. i mean you know theyre going to do it and the persons punished when they did it anyway. why should they be punished? i mean eve was personally tempted by the snake to disobey. jesus was never tempted by the snake personally. i mean you know the snake is in there the entire time and you punish them because you allowed them in there? its like bad parenting. you see a snake go into your babys crib and you tell them not to play with it. but do you think theyre really going to listen to you anyway? obviously not

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Thank u sir. I couldn't agree more with u.
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i think its irrational really that the only excuse any believer can come up with is: it was a test. i mean why test them when you already know whats going to happen. youre omniscient so whats the point in the test? it wasnt a test. he was simply teasing them, wanting them to do that.
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Did Henry Ford know the car he was building would kill people? Perhaps. Does this make him evil? Probably not.

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No. Henry ford couldn't have known that for certain. But god, we are told, knew for certain, didn't he?
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I know for certain that Alfred Nobel knew dynamite would kill people. And so did Henry Ford, he said so, and bought liability insurance.
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:0)
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None of them foresaw the people in particular to be killed either by dynamite or by ford. I am sure, if they knew, they would have done everything to save them, which god doesn't! Every technology has a negative side, god is not supposed to have any dark side.
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Ts up
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Pious, you seem to know exactly what God should do. I vote for you to take his place when there is a vacancy.
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this analogy is not a valid argument. it isnt for the fact that god himself is infinite, meaning he knows everything regardless. henry ford himself only knew so much.
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Shiney: I am sure any modern man would do infinitely better than your god!
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If God knows everything, and still chooses to allow evil, he still knows more than you.
I can defend the view that the existence of evil in the world is consistent with the existence of an omnipotent, perfectly good God. First, we posit that evil and good exist.
1 The amount of good in the world requires the possibility of substantial evil (good only appears good by contrast).
2. I distinguish moral evil (which comes from humans acting in morally bad ways) from natural evil (pain and suffering that comes from anything other than human action with predictable outcome), both of which are necessary for the world's good.

3. Why is moral evil is necessary Consider what sorts of goods a generous god would give to humans. In addition to pleasure and contentment, is it possible that such a god would "give us great responsibility for ourselves, each other, and the world, and thus a share in his own creative activity of determining what sort of world it is to be??
4. This kind of responsibility requires that humans have free will, for we are not responsible for our actions absent the freedom to choose other actions. Moreover, it is incompatible with God's intervention when humans commit bad acts. That is, to have genuine responsibility for something, one must have the opportunity to harm that thing as well as benefit it.
5. I argue that humans must have some inherent inclination to act badly in order for us to have a real choice between doing good and doing evil. If we only had an inclination to act rightly, then doing so would be a foregone conclusion.
6. Thus, in order to make the choice between good actions and evil actions meaningful, God would have allowed humans inclined to act wrongly in order to facilitate the responsibility necessary for a good life.

I believe the presence of natural evil is necessary in much the same way. On account of this, natural evil provides opportunity for humans to have the complex responsibility necessary for good lives. It does so in two ways. First, the natural processes that result in evil allow humans to either exploit them to harm others (a moral evil) or fight them to do good. For example, humans can learn about diseases to help spread disease or fight it. Second, the existence of natural evils gives humans the opportunity to act in morally significant ways. Pain, for example, allows one to thrive in the face of adversity or to help others in need. It therefore increases the breadth of human responsibility and contributes to quality of life available. So both moral and natural evil bear upon human responsibility, which is itself necessary for human good. Since an omnipotent and benevolent god would provide the best possible life for humans, such a good would allow for evil.
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This argument presumes moral good and evil,
As well as certain human characteristics and motivations
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Well said Shiny. Just read that this morning. ;)
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Wow. Green Stars for shiny. He makes it look so easy.
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Yes. It was all part of the plan, Adam fell that men might be, and men are, that they might have joy.
After partaking of the fruit, they knew good from evil.

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Thank u for your kind response. But please tell me that was it god's plan for man to know good from evil?
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Np:) and because that's the purpose of being on earth, to be tested on how we will use our free agency. To be able to choose good and not choose evil.
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Opps! Mis-read! Yes, that was his plan. That we'd know good from evil.
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So if he purposefully & designedly caused that, why did he punish Adam & Eve for fulfilling his very purpose? Wasn't that hypocrisy?
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It wasn't a punishment, though it may seem like that sometimes. God wants us to be able to live with him someday, but we need to prove to him and ourselves that we are worthy. We need to keep his commandments and endure to the end and choose right. We were put on this earth to be tested. Yes, God ultimately knows what we are going to do before we do it ourselves, and knows what we can and can't do, but it's for us to learn. I hope I'm making sense, some things I'm better at on typing, some things I'm better at explaining verbally.
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It was part of the plan that Adam and eve would know good from evil, it was designed so that they would need to leave God's presence and dwell on earth. If we were in God's presence all the time, it would be easy not to sin, we wouldn't want to. We need to be tested to see how we choose without his presence. If Adam and eve hadn't partaking of the fruit, they would be immortal forever, not knowing happy from sad, good from bad, and so on. Living in a blissful state forever, we would not exist.
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Sure he did, but he had the perfect plan for that ... Like he always does

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Which is?
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I would say but I wasted typing on you bfore..
But guess what.. Your "going" to get to ask him.. While on your knees
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BeautifulNitemare
What is the point of arguing whether we do or do not believe? We, each, have our own ideas and that is what "Freedom of Religion" is based on. Whether it is right or wrong...when we leave this place called Earth we will experience the true meaning..(group hug)...no one wins- each of us is different.
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Spang: I won't ever be on my knees, because I refuse to be a slave as u. Isn't it you that grovel on the knees before a magical being, with your brain paused, hands crossed & eyes closed? You are taking a good practice though!!
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Every knee including yours will ..bow
But god said it best .. He does laugh........................................:-))
?How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge. Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you. Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded, Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke, I also will ""laugh ""at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes, When your terror comes like a storm, And your destruction comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you. ?Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me. ""Because they hated
knowledge "" And did not choose the fear of the Lord, They would have none of my counsel And despised my every rebuke. Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way, And be filled to the full with their own fancies. For the turning away of the simple will slay them, And the complacency of fools will destroy them; But whoever listens to me will dwell safely, And will be secure, without fear of evil.? (Proverbs 1:22-33 NKJV)
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I've something as sacred (if not more) than the monotony of bible too for u. Read:

"The (spiritually) living and the (spiritually) dead are not alike. Allh causes to hear whom He will. But you cannot make those hear who are (lying buried) in the graves (of ignorance and prejudice)." Al-Quran [35:22]

"(On the other hand) there are some people who follow ways of causing diversion (from guidance), with the result that they, in their ignorance, lead (people) astray from Allh?s path and treat it (- Allh?s path) as something of least importance. A humiliating punishment awaits such people." Al-Quran [31:6]
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Thanks pious..
O btw I answered your question in the comments on the ? Concerning creation, light, and the sun and earth being formed..
Think is the ? Under "dinasaurs "
Hope it help understand the position somewhat..
Tc
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It was all part of his plan...free will. Otherwise we would all be robots....with that, why exist? There will always be good and evil...its up to us to decide what we do.

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magdalene
Thumbs up for your answer!
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All you have to do is read The Bible. It has your answers.

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Bible is simply a collection of anecdotal books, written by ignorant priest for their business venture. It's full of lies, impositions, frauds, forgeries, black magics, filth, savagery, genocide & a VERY FEW universal truths! It's nothing to offer to a unbiased reader & honest investigator. I tend to insist that, in terms of intellectual rigor you couldn't ask for anything worst than the bible!
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well it has your answer. guess you really don't want a answer.
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suit yourself.
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Read dawkins then. See if you can find a answer that suits you there. Great place to look for a answer to a BIBLE related question is a author that likes to copy The Bible.
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Jenni18
pious you said the Bible is full of frauds and forgeries. What about evolution?
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God gave them free will. God Knew they would disobey him, this was a test of obedience and failed.

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Could they obey god and pass the test? Was it possible for them?
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If they were obedient. But since they were not they were punished. And their punishment was inherited by us. Smh darn periods and darn birth pains. Men, idk mens punishment, i think its them being jerks. Idk lol
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Jenni18

He can choose to not know things. People have free will.

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18Jenni
No predestination. otherwise the Bible wouldn't refer to "time and unforeseen occurence."
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Welp I'm gonna hafta say that he supposed to be omnipotent, right? Wouldn't that include seeing into the future?

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