Let me tell you a story. Two Jews come to see the rabbi before Yom Kippur. The first one says, "Rabbi, what should I do? My whole life I kept the Torah and obeyed all the mitzvot, but just one time I did this one horrible thing, and hurt this man in a horrible way. It was a very serious transgression, how do I atone for it? It was such a heinous violation, is there even a way for me to atone?" The second Jew said, "Rabbi, I never did anything as bad as what the first man said. But all my life I did small things: offended people here and there, but nothing really very bad. How do I atone? Surely it can't be too hard, as all those were small, insignificant transgressions." The rabbi thought for a moment and said: "You both go to the field. The first man bring back with you a boulder as big as your offense. The second man, you fill up this sack with small pebbles and small stones, that represent your many small transgressions." The two men returned, each did exactly as the rabbi told him to do. The rabbi looked at them carefully, and then said, now each of you go back to the field, and put back everything you took exactly where you took it from. The first man had no trouble remembering where he took the big boulder from, and did that quickly. The rabbi told him, "The same way you put the boulder back, go back to the person you offended, and mend it." The second man said, "Rabbi, I can't remember where each little stone came from." The rabbi replied, if you cannot remember who you offended, you do not know whom you should ask forgiveness from. Yom Kippur atones only after you have satisfied the person you offended." I think the morals are clear.
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yes most definitely
Nahhh your still going to hell, sad isn't
It doesn't work like that. You should never accept God into your heart for selfish reasons.
God isnt the savior, Jesus is
Technically yes, but if you're doing it just for that, no. You'd have to truly mean it and just by the way you asked it we can tell you really don't.
Possibly. But if you get hit by a cement truck before then you're screwed.
Everyone will sin their entire lives, but Jesus has MERCY and if you are worthy, God will accept you into heaven :)
That's pretty much exactly what happens in prison. People do what they want, get caught and learn that if they follow a certain book that all their "sins" will be forgiven and they will go to heaven. You found the loop hole, congrats.
Why can't you respect us enough to do the same? Just saying...
I am against willhelm and flipflop53.
Rpd2131 is brilliant. Here is my reasoning:
First off, let me state that I have a bachelor’s in religion, and I am currently working on my master’s.
Technically speaking rpd2131 is correct, and willhelm is wrong.
However, in order to be forgiven you must truly believe in the religion of Christianity. You cannot just ask to be forgiven, and then it happens. Of course, when you’re facing death some will truly believe whatever it takes.
Willhelm stated that Jesus chooses you. This is technically his only correct statement. You must also choose him in return; you accept Jesus into your heart and life. So willhelm is wrong overall.
That’s how this interesting debate started.
Flipflop53: rpd2131 never once mentions his religious beliefs, though towards the end of the stream he vaguely implies that he is not Christian. Nor does he outright say anything against Christianity. He questioned a false statement made by another user.
When the stream then goes to Catholicism, rpd2131 is again questioning the false statements made by willhelm, NOT questioning the religion itself.
Willhelm: Catholics did NOT “write their own bible”. They use a certain translation of the bible, as do many of the branches of Christianity. There is currently 7-10 different translations of the bible.
Flipflop53: I particularly liked your comment “very, very few of us go on the atheists and agnostics’ questions and hound them telling them how wrong they are”. Every Christian I have ever met pushes their beliefs onto others; the bible tells you to do that. 2 Timothy 4:2 states the following:
“Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.”
SIDENOTE:
An easy indicator that someone is of a lower level of intelligence (and quite possibly is wrong) is their use of CORRECT GRAMMAR. Whereas flipflop53 and rpd2131 had less than 5 errors combined, willhelm had over 20 gramma
Most of the time, wrong beliefs have little to do with the translation. Most of the time, as I have seen it, wrong beliefs come from poor research followed by an unwillingness to question one's beliefs.
As I've said elsewhere, I've often heard the phrase: "You shouldn't question God's truth." And I tend to agree with that. But then I add, "We should ALWAYS question our understanding of His truth."
God's truth is based on His understanding, which is perfect and absolute. We are all finite and prone to error. If we do not question our understanding, we put ourselves up at the level of God, and you don't get much further from the truth than that.
Every denomination has it's errors. The ones I worry about the most are the ones that think they understand completely. I often think, "What would it take God to show them their error?"
Seek understanding. Seek wisdom. Seek God.
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This is so important. I believe that what I share is true, but I recognize that it may not be. I'm not perfect and I won't be as long until after this life. Then I will see all the things I got wrong. I will be able to say, "Now I understand."
There are some things you have shared where I agree with you. About the sprinkling of water on a baby's head. I think it has significance in that it is a commitment of the parent's to the baby. But that's about it. But I could be wrong about that. I could. I also think that "hellfire" may not mean literal fire, though I am not sure about that. When I think about hell, what I think most is that when people die, they will either be joined with their God, or separated from Him. And the torment of realizing that you missed out on being with God because you didn't take the time to really try to understand, well, that will be terrible indeed. And no one at that time will be able to make disparaging comments about God and heaven.
Jennifer, if there is one thing I could convey to you, the most important to me would be that we all, every one of us, has scales on our eyes. I have read quite a bit about the Jehovah's Witnesses, and unless you read about their history, which your church forbids, you will be unable to see your error. Your "church" knows that they cannot stand up to certain truths being revealed, so they, like some other groups, teach that you should only read "approved" books. Trust me, those books will never show you where you are wrong.
Jennifer, if you are wrong, do you want to know where you are wrong? If you say to me, "but I'm not wrong. I know I'm right." (continued)
None of us can afford to think that we can't be wrong. Only God is perfect. Only God is all knowing.
The most accurate bible is the Greek and Hebrew Bible. But even that one can be misinterpreted. You have been taught that your translation is the most accurate. And you believe what you have been taught. That doesn't make it true.
Every Bible has it's translation errors. Some are better than others, but none is perfect. And even if you had a perfect translation, it's a guarantee that people reading it would have different interpretations on certain parts.
Why is this? There is more than one reason, but one reason stands out to me. People want to believe that they are right. People don't like uncertainty. People have a choice when it comes to the Bible: They can interprete the Bible so it fits what they believe, or they can seek to adjust their beliefs so that they fit what the Bible says.
Go to a Christian book store. Find a book on the Jehovah's Witnesses that tells of their past. If you are correct in your beliefs, then there is no danger in this. And if you are not correct, if you have been misled . . . don't you want to know that?
Consider one more thing: There are other groups very much like the JWs. They also believe just as strongly as you do that their views are the correct ones. And they have just as much reason to believe that as you do. Yet they, too, are taught not to read books that are not approved. I can never trust a group that teaches that. We need to read books outside of our beliefs, so that any errors may be revealed. And we need to be humble about our ability to understand God's truth. We are finite. We are limited.
If you believe today exactly what you believed 10 years ago, then I'm sorry. You haven't grown. If you don't, then can't you see that 10 years from now you will have a better understanding that you do now? (one more)
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You don't choose when you come to God. God chooses you. And you can be a follower of God and still sin. I'm a believer of God and I sin daily. But if you repent of your sin. You will always be a child of God no matter how much you sin.
I always worry most about people who don't question their beliefs, whether they are Christian or not.
Only God is all knowing. Only God is infinite. We are all finite and prone to error. We should always to open to correction, always accountable, always teachable.
What is our part in salvation? The Bible says that we are not saved by our good works, nor by our worthiness (none of us are worthy apart from Christ's sacrifice).
Yes, only God can transform us. Only God can save us.
Our part is to yield ourselves to Him, then He will do what only He can do.
God offers servitude, and if we follow Him we find we have been granted freedom. Satan offers freedom, and if we follow him we find we have been enslaved.
At any rate, that is my current understanding. I truly hope that I will keep growing in my understanding. I certainly won't mind admitting in the future that I was wrong about some things now.
We can listen to each other and learn from each other. God uses us in each other's lives. And that goes for both believers and non-believers. If we truly wish to grow in knowledge and understanding and, most important, wisdom, then we need to honestly seek those things. We need to seek God.
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You can say to someone, "If you continue in the direction you're going, then you'll end up in hell!"
Or you could say, "I would so hate to see you spending eternity separated from God. That would be so tragic. I would much rather see you in heaven. I would be so pleased to find you there and to share together what God has for us."
I think people would be more responsive (in a positive way) to the latter.
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Remember that the Savior underwent much worse abuse than any we have, and did so without complaint or anger.
And when someone comments without understanding, we have all the more reason to have compassion. When they bad mouth God, I can only feel pity for them.
I only ask you to think and pray about these things.
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I will do as you ask, though, and move on.
I'd really like to encourage you to consider that maybe there is a better way to approach communication.
You want to be blunt and blatant, and then you complain when others are that way with you. You say that you are a Christian and condemn others who disagree with you. You want to correct others but are not open to correction yourself. And then you try to exclude yourself from accountability because of your age.
Well, I've been as honest with you as you have been with others on the site. And I think I've still been more polite than you have been to others.
Why do I write this? Because I care. I care about you, and I still hope that you will actually think about what I'm writing and not just react to it. I'm hoping that you will take your faith seriously, and not just use it as a weapon against others.
And because I care about those that you affect adversely. If I was not a Christian, I'd be thinking "Wow, if that's a Christian, I want no part of it."
Most people who choose to reject Christianity do so because of the negative impression they've had from Christians they've known or heard about.
Do you really want to be someone who affects people negatively?
We are called to be Christ's representatives. We are commanded to seek to be like Christ. Those of us who take those things seriously really don't want our efforts undermined by someone who refuses to accept counsel or correction. And why should anyone listen to you when you are unwilling to listen to them?
Finally, you say "people like RPD don't understand a polite answer, they have to have it blatantly spelled out for them". Willhelm, you are like that yourself, perhaps more than RPD.
I really don't mean to be harsh. I mean only to point out to you a better way.
I'm truly afraid that you will not be open to anything I've said. I hope only one thing - that you will think about it and pray about it.
Willhelm, I did answer your question. Both of them, actually. They were: "So what's the point?" and "So honestly why do you have a problem with me?"
Everything I said addressed those two questions. The point is that you show yourself, even now, to not be teachable. The problem is that you put people off from God instead of drawing them to Him. And further, you don't even care.
You're wrapped up in your mission to tell people what you "know", when you need to be listening to the Spirit of God, and allowing Him to guide you. And you leave damage behind you that you aren't even aware of.
Is that any clearer? I hope so, because if not, you may be more a lost cause than the people you are speaking to.
Twice I've asked you to think about what I've said and to pray about it. Do you know why I made such a point of that? Because I know . . . I KNOW that I can't change you, and even if I could, it woudn't be the change needed. Only God can convict us of our error and ONLY God can bring about the kind of change we each need. I've seen if happen in my life. I was a lot like you many years ago. I was challenged by a pastor to take a day and to fast and pray about what he thought might be a "critical spirit" in me. I didn't think he was right, but I set aside a Saturday and I was alone, fasting and praying. After only four hours, my error . . . my sin was revealed to me. And when God reveals something to us, we no longer see it as we did before. We see our sin with all of it's ugliness and poison. God granted me the ability to change, to become an encourager instead of a criticiser.
Let me tell you, willhelm, it is so much more of a blessing, both to me and to others! Oh, sometimes I still fall back into the old ways, but when God touches you in an area like this, you are sensitive to Him ever after. You just can't live with the old excuses anymore.
Please. Take some time and truly seek God.
there is no hell, Cheeses!
Sure you can you can do anything you please , I suggest you think about it first , if you had a son and he would tell you the same thing "dad can I do anything I want till I'm 80 and then can I be good " what will your answer be?
Attitude is everything and you can't fool God.
Okay, If you just mean like "Okay i dont give 2 craps about god i just wanna go too heaven" then defiantly NOT. But if you truly do belive in god truly in the heart. then defiantly.
it depends on. what you mean by. sin...
Yes but you need to mean it not just say it sorry but it doesn't work that way it's not game ps. Congrats!!! see you there;)
We will all face God's judgement. He knows our heart and our intent. I really doubt that on judgement day it's going to be about technicalities.
If our intent was to deceive that is how we will be judged. If we didn't come to a sincere testimony until we are 80, that is how we will be judged. You can't trick your way out of Devine judgment.
Personally I'll gladly face God's judgement, because the silliness I'm hearing by so many of these self appointed judges would make me too confused to know what to do if I trusted to their wildly varying opinions.
Well... let me give you a quote:
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.
33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.
34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.
For full disclosure: this is not a Bible quote, it is actually from the Book of Mormon Alma 34:32-35. If you not Mormon just think of it as a quote from a book for spiritual poetry.
You have to believe in heaven and hell in order to get in... I say as long as you don't hurt others or their families you will be in a good place when you die. But being nice to people random or friends does make your spirit feel good. I don't believe in heaven or hell but I know I will be at piece with myself when I die.
Jesus told a story of a man who owned a vinyard and he went out in the morning to hire laborers and they agreed to work for the day for a penny the owner then went again at noon and got more workers and they agreed to work for a penny and then the owner went again at like four and hired more laborers for a penny and when it was time to get off and get paid the workers who agreed to work all day for a penny were angry because the workers who only worked a half a day and the ones who were hired at four received the same pay salvation is yours no matter how long you wait just acknowledge Jesus as the son of God who came and shed his blood as payment for your sins in romans it says that all who call on the name of the lord Jesus will be saved confession is made with the mouth unto salvation but it is a personal relationship with Jesus that will start a change of heart you will become a new creation you will not want to sin anymore
we all have sinned, let's just hope that he forgives all .
It's the heart that God is concerned with. If you feel truly sorry for your sins and you want to know Jesus, that is something He listens to. Your age should not be the only factor, but your age should not stop you either. The Bible states of God, "If any man come unto me, I will in no wise cast him out". He will see our heart and hear our cry when we are sincere. Just be honest before Him in prayer as if He were sitting right there in front of you. He does listen and He does respond. Find a good church and if you will be around other christians it will also be uplifting. When we repent of our sins and accept Salvation through Jesus Christ because His Sacrifice made way for us to come to the Heavenly Father, God does forgive and we are then, new in the Lord. All sins are forgiven and we can and should tell someone of this new experience. Read the Bible, pray and thank God for what He has done and is doing and fellowship with others and grow in your new life, blessed by God. Eighty is definitely not too old. If you feel now at 80 that you want to know Jesus, then, you can be sure, He wants to know you as His Child. God Bless You!!
Why can't you respect us enough to do the same? Just saying...
By religious people? Before answering that one though, I fell I should give my definition as I see it of "religious". Now, I've already been told before by a lady on Ask that my definition isn't so, but I do believe it anyway. It's actually more of a description of comparison though, I guess than it is a definition. And, it is this, I see "religious" people more in comparison as the pharisees in behaviour. And, Jesus did not behave as the pharisees. Now, they, to me were "religious". The religion that spoke to me of Jesus was to love and help the widows and the orphans, that type of behaviour. The "religious" behaviour of the pharisees were judging others harshly and thinking well of themselves. So, yes, definitely the "religious" people do persecute the christians. And, that happens in daily life and even on Ask. But, they also persecuted Jesus when He was on earth and He basically told us in the Bible, that we will be persecuted as well.
That's kind of shallow.
Salvation is much more about Earth than Heaven. If you turn to God when you are 80 right before you die, there won't be much left for God to save.
This is exactly the type of legalistic babble that religion makes people waste time on. You could be in the world enjoying you life and being yourself and a good person but instead your brooding over the cheapest way to get into heaven. Religion is for schemers scheming their way into heaven and running from the fear of eternal damnation. Some people will take this thought and run with it because they know when they are 80 some nooby indoctrinate will come knocking at their door with some good news.
In my opinion. If this is your outlook then you wouldnt accept Jesus as your saviour anyway. I dont believe you can plan on being a sinner your entire life and try to sneak your way into forgiveness.i believe Jesus would know whether you were truely sorry or not.and how seriously you were taking things
Certainly people can become christians at the end if their life but unless they really mean it it wont happen. At this very moment God already knows the falseness of your heart and He will know it then as well so in your case i would say 'no' unless you have a true and serious change of heart. You cant fool God.
The Bible warns us concerning the brevity of the human lifespan. "You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away" (James 4:14). We are not instructed to consider converting someday, but to believe today! "Today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts" (Hebrews 3:7-8, 14; 4:7). None of us knows how much time we have left in this life or what the circumstances of our death will be. The only reasonable option is to repent and believe in Jesus Christ today. Many people die without having the experience of an extended amount of time on a death bed. Many people die instantly and unexpectedly, with no opportunity to trust in Christ. 2 Corinthians 6:2 declares, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you. I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation."
Oh, yes!! Very much so!! That's the FUN part of Christianity. It teaches that you can be forgiven from the sky for all your lifelong crimes and evils, if you ONLY subscribe to its impossibility. It forgets that history has proved time and again that personal morality cannot survive where people believe in divine forgiveness, believe in the absurdity that some "higher power" can remove the guilt from the guilty, without removing the wrong from the victim.
Pious: No - God sends you to Montana where you must learn to be a "horse whisperer" - then he'll think about letting you in.
Yes, you can accept Jesus anytime you want - even when you're 80. But, here's the problem, you are not guaranteed tomorrow and if you're unsaved when you die you're on a one way ticket to Hell. You have no idea if you're going to live to be 80, so why not accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour right now? Or would you rather take the chance of spending eternity separated from God and not get saved until you're 80? You could die before then, Jesus could come back, so why are you waiting?
Pray this helps. God bless. - Zack
Sure, Yes, Does not mean the Lord is interested in you, see you in Hell. Check out Lord Above at Lord above. org
yes you can but you never know when your gonna die so i wouldnt play games its always better to accecpt jesus as soon as possible the bible says life is but a vapor
According to Jesus' teachings, most definitely. This question is directly answered in Matthew 20:1-16.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%2020:1–16;&version=NIV;
This assumes the conversion is sincere, of course. To "accept God[/Jesus] as [one's] savior" in bad faith wouldn't work according to that formula (see Matthew 7:21).
Why would you wan't to do this?! You are sinning by will, and if you really want to accept him as your saviour, why not do it now? Why live a worthless life of sin and ignorance when you can live it to the max in God, without needing to result to sinning? Besides you don't know when He will come back or when you will die! By playing this "sin game" you'd be risking your salvation for sins and you'd spend your eternity suffering just cuz you waned to enjoy your short time on Earth. GBY
Let's say I find this wonderful, incredible woman. She's stunningly beautiful. She's as sweet as apple pie. She's got personality like I've never seen before. She's the most perfect woman I've ever met.
I go to her and I say, "I'd like to marry you. I'd be the luckiest man in history if you said yes."
Then I add, "But first, I'd like to spend the next 40 years playing the field, enjoying other women, partying, etc. Then I'll come back and find you and we'll spend the rest of our lives together. How's that sound?"
Ludicrous, eh? Why would you choose an empty, sordid life full of regrets when you can start enjoying a relationship with a God that loves you right now?
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Thankyou and a Sunday Greenie! :)
Hebrews 10:26 says:"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left." Acts 3:19 encourages us to "Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out." Why would one want to go to heaven if they enjoy a life full of sin? Heaven is for the righteous! Individuals who have righteous thoughts, followed by righteous words, and righteous actions to back all of it up. Anyway, when Adam & Eve sinned (condemning the world of mankind to sin and death), they didn't burn in a fiery place of torment. Genesis 3:19 says "for dust you are and to dust you will return." If anyone was deserving of eternal torment, I would think it would be them! And no where in the bible will you find that that was their judgment.
Yes. God has mercy on us all. It seems like you want to except him only because you don't want to die and go to hell though. Don't let that be your motive. But yes you still can be saved as long as you're alive. The message of salvation is Acts 2:38. So you have to repent for you sins, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and recieve the gift of the holyghost, which is speaking in another tongue. God comes and lives inside of you :) Live for God.
You Could Be About To Die And Finally Notice All The Wrong Things You Dont Just Repent.! Ask God For Forgiveness.!
Why would you want to miss out in all of His wonderful mercies and blessings throughout this life that he will fulfill you with? You are playing with a very serious thing. My sister tried to do that, however satin had a hold of her too tight and her time was too short. She died of a drug overdose at the age of 43, two months ago. She had just started going to Church to seek God, for she knew right from wrong, and chose the wrong path making her life a disaster and full of despair. Do not try to play with God and His word. If you belive in God at all, you already know the answer.
"Got a reason to cry, got a reason to fear
"My old friend Johnny, is no longer here
"He makes his bed now in a bitter grave
"You see, I doubt that he ever got saved"
Death can be terribly tragic. And beyond our own pain, there is God's pain in losing someone He cared so much for. He did so much to prepare for us something truly wonderful and awesome, and everyone who rejects that must pain Him greatly.
And by the way, I don't believe that God chooses for anyone to go to hell. People go there because of their own choice.
Knowingly, or unknowingly, we all commit sins, with varying magnitudes. If, a person, doesn't believe in, or accept, GOD, then, that's his or her Fate. Because, one washes away, one's sins, by praying the GOD, and by other good deeds, and shapes the fate of his or hers next birth or the very next birth itself. Hence, when a person attains the mental or the needed spiritual maturity, finally to accept, GOD, without any preconditions or reservations, his sins are getting reduced gradually.And, if in the present, birth its not coming to Zero, it gets carried over to the next birth, added to the Karmas of that next birth. Thats the reason, different personnel have different ways of life.So, one can never commit sins and walk away, scot free, but, God will give chances or oppurtunities, to realise one's mistakes or sins, and to make it even, and to finally merge with Him.
Being saved isn't just getting yourself out of Hell. Everyone sins, Christian or not. Im a born agin beliver and i still sin. Its human nature. But accepting Jesus as your Savior isnt truely being saved if you are just doing it to get out of hell. If you truely loved God and believed that He sent His sln to die for you, you wouldnt even be asking that question, because your passion for Him would make you want to live your life for Him.
