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JamesKaeberle

Why do people think this life is more important than the life to come?

This life is like a vapor or like the grass in the field here today gone tomorrow. But eternity is forever.

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It is very sad that you feel this way. It takes a special kind of forced delusion to convince a person that an unproven, unlikely, nonsensical promise of candy land to come, makes this beautiful life disgusting. I really hope you overcome your religious traumas, James.

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Me too. The hocus pocus is more real to him than his actual life. I get so bloody angry when they do this to kids.
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Unfortunately he is not a kid...he chose this in his 30s (see the comments ion OzMan's answer). Too bad he is so focused on his after-life that he will never enjoy what the world has to offer. Truly sad......
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Yeah, but I bet he did it to his kids. It was done to me. I'll never do it to my Zane.
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You named your kid after the novel? I love that name!
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Yep. So few people ever heard of Zane Gray nowadays but my grandfather loved his novels! Plus, when you combine it with our last name he sounds like a bounty hunter.

My little sister calls him Zaniac. Every time he cries she says he's gone inZane.
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James is one of the most peaceful people on here. His choice shouldn't bother anyone. He knows what works and what doesn't
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He spends an awful lot of time judging and insulting others for such a "peaceful" person.

He only knows what works for HIM not anyone else.
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I'm worried for James. That's ok too.
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Yes it is Nov...yes it is.....
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Zane is an awesome name Kitten.....good for you!
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I had to fight for it. My husband wanted George after both our grandfathers. I compromised on that as his middle name.
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Does your son like it?
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He's only three months old so we'll see.
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Oh.....I thought he was older...like teens (palm to the face)
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I didn't spawn particularly young since I had to earn my doctorate and get a bit established in my field first. I'm in my mid-thirties, so some people my age do have teens.
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Spawn? You a fish? Oh noooooo kitten...are you a salmon??????
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Yikes. Making fish comments around a raptor....
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......I like fish........



My favorite food group...............especially salmon.......
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I believe this also. Now is the time to prove ourselves for greater things

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The only life we can be really sure that we have is this one. We can't waste this life because we think we might have another one.

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What if, by wasting this life, one can be promised that in the NEXT life, they'll live in mansions of gold with their every need met? Isn't just living for that PROMISE worth it? Even if it never comes to be?
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Yes Tman, or strapping a bomb to yourself :/
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Noveltman , that's an alluring image, but what if on the other hand it isn't so? There aren't any do overs. I say make the most of this, if another is to follow you should be nicely positioned.
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Novel, If you were one of those people like james and I that Have life altering problems and the only way out of them is to turn to The Lord, you would know what we mean. Have you ever been a hardcore drug addiction or had a loved that way? There's no other way out of the hellhole
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This I can understand more.
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Aiken- I've dealt with very hardcore drug addiction. Oxycodone for months at a time- no come down... for months... all my money... alcohol is cheaper now- more addiction- the rest of my money- ya I've been there. No god necessary but I will say it would have been exceedingly difficult without guidance- I am a Buddhist. I would not have described it as a hellhole but I'm renown in my social circle for maintaining great attitude despite desperate circumstance.
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Truth ,you do know where we come from then. You have a higher power and friends for support. Do you still have alcohol problems? You didn't make that clear.
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Every time someone says, "God needs to be put ... here", it's not true. God is unnecessary. Friends? Necessary. Support? Necessary. Imaginary All-Powerful Super Sky Friend? Unnecessary.
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No, I have no vice but soda pop. I have but the words of men if that is a higher power to you. Support from friends probably played a role.
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Actually,13, becoming a Christian has improved my life immensely. I think you guys miss that point. I lived 40 years doing my own thing, and I can't tell you how much happier and contented I am now. Not to mention the prize when I die.
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The prize when you die.
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Stella: Good for you. But when people like James say that this life means nothing to them, it makes me sad because they're not appreciating the only existence they have. I'm glad you're content with your life as a Christian. James, however, does not sound happy or content at all. It's a shame to see a life wasted in expectancy of immortality in death.
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They live for the moment !

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Because the moment is all we can be sure we have.
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Does that make you feel bad? I would be depressed if that was what I believed.
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It would be depressing to you if you didn't believe a whole bunch of extra, unnecessary stuff?
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It's not depressing. I just know that life, like all things, must come to an end. I've accepted my mortality, and I am determined to make the most of my life here. I'm actually glad that I'm not immortal. To live forever would be its own kind of hell.
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Everybody in Heaven: Uh...........God?

God: Yes, my children?

Everybody: It's been ...... ah........ little over 3 trillion years now since you saved our souls from eternal nonexistence..... Are we .... um, ...... gonna do anything now, or ..........?

God: Or what?

Everybody: Well, or is it always going to be this boring and monotonous?

God: ..................................
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The atheist enjoys ever little sip in this small glass in our hands while the theist drips it on the ground dreaming of an ocean beyond the mountain. Good luck with that.

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Excellent analogy!
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Thank you jj.
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Nicely put. I would hope the 'faithful' have some concept that enjoying life isn't necessarily done on ones knees.
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Death while praying for a fish, eh?
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It's better to die on my feet then live on my knees. ;)
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Do you think all we do is sit around and read the Bible? We live life to the fullest. We are family oriented though. Does that make us fairy tale people?
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I am all about my family. I don't think all you do is read the Bible. I do think you spend a little more time than is appropriate trying to plead the case for your God, dismissing ALL those other people who believe in other gods than you, and of course, those of us who have learned enough not to believe. I think if we ever met face to face, we'd find each other more than interesting. We'd probably enjoy a conversation. Your continued belief in fairy tales makes you fairy tale people.
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Aiken, while everyone is different I know there are many Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. that have missed out on a huge part of life due to the "moral" code that their faith forces them to follow. Some things in this code are silly to a rational, intelligent human being, I'll blink-out knowing I didn't miss out on sex with 2 women at the same time, experimenting with drugs around good friends, building a model train on the Sabbath, eating pork, etc. etc. etc. if you say "so what" then it just makes my answer all the more true.
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Caluvox, I did all that when I was younger, and it's not all its cracked up to be. If you escaped that without becoming addicted, broke, an STD, etc. you are one of the lucky ones.
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Yes I am. That's why I said many, but you have to admit eating bacon is MORE then it's cracked-up to be ;)
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mmmmmmmmm.....bacon...
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Good point. It'd be hard to find 40 virgins in this life.

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Isn't it 72?
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Yes, but I don't want to be selfish.

(Actually, I've seen both numbers used and links with both)
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I've seen it both ways.
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I wonder where the fresh supplies of virgins keep coming from? :)
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Dead babies. Can I say that? Dead babies? Grow up and become the virgins of which the Holy Texts speak?
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Apparently, I can say dead babies.
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Ah James, I'm so very, very sorry. I can only hope that you're very young because that will give you at least the opportunity to learn the difference between reality and the fantasy that's been fed to you.

Your profile page is focused totally on religion and it seems you have no life apart from that.

The Pie in the Sky is imaginary, James. THIS is reality. Please give yourself the opportunity to learn that there are many alternatives to the dogma you appear to have been fed.

Realise this: If you had been born in Israel you'd be Jewish, in Iraq you'd be Muslim; in parts of Iran and India you'd be Zoroastrian. Your religion depends on where you were born and what you were taught, probably from the cradle. Christianity depends on being born in the right (or wrong) place -- not on some incontrovertible truth.

I hope you manage to find reality and to enjoy the only life you're ever going to get. Good luck to you.

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JamesKaeberle
Sorry you sadly mistaken. But that's ok your lost not mine. :-) For your information I'm 60 years old. Got saved when I was 30 Been serving God for 30 years loving every minute of it. Got some of the greatest friends and I don't miss a thing about this world. Looking forward to going home to be with the Lord. Something you will never experience and it's really a shame. And by the way Luck has nothing to do with it. But since you believe in Luck then good luck to you. You'll need it.
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Oh OzMan, this IS sad.........but he is an adult and he chose this......

Good luck to you JK, hope you find what you need. Too bad you are not enjoying the life you have here....there is so much wonder in the world. You should experience it before you go.
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That's left me feeling a bit gloomy. OK, James, by 60 you should have some idea about what you want. Sorry I mistook you for a kid.
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JamesKaeberle
Oh trust me I'm more happier than you are. :-)
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I seriously doubt that....
<---------I have all these lovely feathers :0)
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Happiness at the expense of understanding reality is too high a price to pay.
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JamesKaeberle
lol
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What? You do not think my feathers are REAL??? (hmmph!!!)
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I wish to echo what Brian said there.
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Nov......Brian?
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I am a fan of Family Guy. I hear tralbry speak in Seth Macfarlane's voice. Can't help it.
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Ah! My mind was drifting to something TOTALLY different.......
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I'm a fan of Monty Python too, but not as much.
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I agree with James totally. I'm 60 also and have learned over the years that life is much more satisfactory and joyful by knowing I have a Heavenly Father who loves me know matter what. I don't know how people exist without that.
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Nov...you really get me *<];0)|

Aikenback.......I cannot imagine why you need so much to believe, so I guess we are even huh?
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I find it interesting they always claim they are happier than we are. How would they know when they don't know us? I'm very happy, and happier than I ever was as a Christian.
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I am happy too kitten....so happy I think I will do a wing dip (swooosh.......)
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James and Aiken prove the point that the REASON people believe these fantasies is the need for a sense of comfort or to "make sense" of a senseless Cosmos. "I don't know how people exist without that" is like an exclamation point on the sentence. The myths make them "happy", or at least not thinking about any harsh realities.

In other words, they can't understand why others aren't so weak as to have to pretend that there is someone in the sky who will eventually take care of them, and not just for years... but for all eternity. Comforting lies are half of the reason for religion. The other half is it's a power play for control by religious elites.

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Nov...you should really see this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngWUkjmOPGg
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What do you mean "needs so much"?
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Kitten, I am at peace with the world. I do have a lot of problems but they are much easier to deal with knowing I have the gospel (the good news) of a saviour who makes my burdens lighter.
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Look, it's great for you that your beliefs make you happy. But keep them to yourself. Our position makes us happy and you Christians constantly pushing your religion on us, telling us we're horrible people, and claiming we can't possibly be happy without your religion is beyond rude.
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I too am happier as a nonbeliever. Much more so than I was years ago, when I was consumed by a desire to do The Heavenly Father's Work. But a lot of people don't become happier when they lose their faith. It can be distressing for your average Joe. I have an idea that a lot of the people who are pretending to believe may have returned from atheism. Couldn't take it.
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Always look on the briiiight side of liiiiife!
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Dozy, don't sweat the gloom. You made a comprehensive case to deaf ears. I for one applaud your tact and message. I hope these folks remain happy in their delusions, it gives them comfort for whatever ails them.
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the briiiiight side of liiiiiife is freakin' awesome Nov!!!!
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Aiken doesn't have to keep it to himself. And he hasn't suggested anyone here is "bad". Nor do we need to keep it to ourselves when testifying as to the falseness of religious fantasies. If he feels he needs it then we're not going to talk him out of needing it any more than you will talk me out of eating. In my worldview I need to eat at least once a day, sometimes more.
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I meant in the "stop trying to convert people" sense.
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OMD Nov......I am hearing Seth Macfarlane's voice now too.......
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Yeah, me too.
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I'd convert him if I could. While I appreciate TheZ's attitude I'm not so sanguine about "whatever gives them comfort" because in the end the inability to think critically causes a lot of harm. I'm just admitting that you can't talk people out of things they think they need.
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I wish I had Seth's versatility for switching between different voices. He's amazing.
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Well you are Seth to me from now on.....
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Dear James and Aiken. Please stop worshiping God and start worshiping Seth.
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Bwahahaha..........god is dog spelled backwards ......bwhahahhahaa!!!
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Well, lots of things have happened since I was away. Waldorff sent me Chapter 11 of his novel to proof read and by the time I got back, well, wow!

I suppose we all find happiness in our own way and if they think it's real and it helps them cope with life we should be happy for them.

Personally, I want a bit more out of life than fantasy.
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Just because you have fantasy doesn't mean you can't have reality, too part of the time. But hedging a bet that your entire life be based on somebody else's ancient fantasy...?
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Sure tralbry, but when they bet their whole life on a belief (and this guy has invested 30 years of it) they cling for all they're worth. And the frightening thing is that there, but for the grace of a few good friends, go I.
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Not me. Outgrew it when I was 13-ish. I don't remember my friends being instrumental in that. If it's true substance abuse was part of his story then I can understand the clinging a bit more if it became a stabilizing force to overcome that. The sympathy-o-meter jumps a little when there are deeper issues like that.
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I'll keep my life, thank you.
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By the way I'm female
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JamesKaeberle
Good word of advice aikenback igrore them. I have a list of those who I know that are nothing but trouble makers and for now on I'm just gonna igrore them. They heard the Word now it's time to shake the dust off your feet and move on. God Bless You and stay strong in the Lord and the Glory of His Might.
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I have high hopes for both you, James, and you, aiken. You both seem very intelligent. I doubt religious fundamentalist zealotry will control your lives forever. You're just in a rut, that's all. Knowledge and intelligence can overcome.
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30 years is a heckuva rut.
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True enough. But who would have thought we could come so far in so little time with regards to science? Progress is dumbfounding. So too can the awakening of minds we thought out of reach also be astounding.
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I blame it all on computers, Nov. But what's next? There are so many wonders still coming that I'll love to see before I head up to Heaven for my slice of pie.
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I would think that how you live your life on Earth would lead to how your life is outside of Earth. Most people see life on Earth as a test or a start, so the next life results from how you live life on Earth

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Amen. You said it right:) people don't believe that there is a life to come... So they think this Is there only life...

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wickedpissah

If this life is just a vapor that doesn't really matter, then take all those green rectangular vapors with the numbers on them out of your wallet and mail them to me.
After all, they're just vapor. They don't really matter to you, do they?

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I think he meant this earth life is very short and mundane compared to what is ahead.
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They'll claim this life means nothing compared to their eternity with Sky Daddy, but one thing they are VERY attached to in this life is their money! $$$$$$$$$!
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wickedpissah
I love that churches always say that "money is the root of all evil", and then they pass around the collection plate.
.... twice.
lol
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Good laugh! I was at a Church once where they passed it around three times. Just because the preacher felt the Lawud a-movin'!!
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Because this life is real and the afterlife is imaginary.

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Are you afraid of dying, then?
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No. Everyone dies. And it would be a horrible shame if I never lived because I was so focused on some mystical "other" life.
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aiken, we know from experience that even the most convinced believer in an afterlife still weeps upon learning a loved one is dying. Or that they themselves are dying. It's never a cheerful tip of the hat, and a "Cheerio! Off to a better one then!" They know reality, deep down, whether they admit it to themselves or not. I prefer blinders off.
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Interesting, Nov. It conjures up an awful scenario where people would be doing them a favor by sending them to their maker.
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Death is just another step in our progression. We don't take death so hard.
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Everyone I've ever known who dealt with death poorly was also highly religious, interestingly enough.
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They claim religion helps answer life's really tough questions (like death) but religion provides really crappy answers if any answers at all. It has been shown that religiously minded people are provided absolutely no relief from worry and concern. (They just make their kids overly worried about Hell).
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For Theists, this life is very important because it gives you a chance to complete your mission on earth. For Atheists, I don't see why you would care. You're just going to meet the same end result regardless of what choices you make while you live. Then again, there are some people who believe that their actions in this life determine the result of the next.

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"We don't look for things that can be seen but for things that can't be seen. Things that can be seen are only temporary. But things that can't be seen last forever." 2 Corinthians 4:18

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There's a unicorn behind you. Look! Quick! He's going to hide!
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Like the ether. They still believe in that, cuz it lasts forever.
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This one is easy, too. Because this is the life that's in front of them right now. It's tangible, it's on-going, it has to be dealt with, its important because there are no do-overs.
For someone who's passed beyond his best years, (60?) the imminence of mortality may press toward faith. methinks that is the case here.

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Nope. He converted from Catholic to "Born Again" 30 years ago. He has 30 years of the silliness and in this age, could have 30 more.
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To what end, I wonder. Why wait? He's got it all figured out then, no need to dawdle on this "unimportant" pre-life.
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Don'tcha know? Suicide is a one-way ticket to the Burning Place.
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Because they don't believe in the next life. There was a time when my belief in heaven and in Christ were weak.
I was very concerned about this life. I was frantic to have an important job, lots of money, the right husband, and other earthly things.
Then Christ came to me. Now I know there is heaven. I am not so worried about earthly things. It is a great relief.

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As long as your not worried about the next life, I guess. Where's the harm? (But most of you are incredibly worried about the next one)...
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I know I will die. This life is all I have ever known. I don't believe lies of people, churches or infomercials. No one has offered me any overwhelming evidence to suggest anything happens to people beyond death- but there is plenty of evidence that people don't do anything after death- at least voluntarily. I think this life is important because its all I've ever known. Any "next life" has presented no previews and the words of man are but empty with respect to evidence until proven otherwise. Written in a book called a bible, quran, book of mormon or catalog selling happy pills the fakes and the deceivers shall covet no wealth from the skeptical of mind. You can no sooner sell hope to me than turn gravity upside down and the only product of believing in an afterlife is just that- hope.

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Sometimes I wish there was a Grandpa Simpson tonic...
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I don't get the reference lol, I watched the simpsons when I was young but I didn't catch that
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“Step right up, folks, and witness the magnificent medicinal miracle of Simpson & Son's patented revitalizing toniiiiiic!! [deep breath] Put some ardor in your larder with our energizing, moisturizing, tantalizing, romanticizing, surprising, her-prizing, revitalizing toniiiiiiiiic!”
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Sorry you feel that way Truth. I'm having a great life, and will be very happy on my deathbed as well.
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The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. -GBS
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How do you not get that, Stella?
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I see haha thx novel, I feel better already
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Stella, what makes you think I don't feel the same? You have nothing to be sorry about. Reality does not scath my senses nor bor through my happiness and humility but rather comforts me akin to a lulliby. Death does not frighten me but rather welcomes me as the last experience I will ever have. It's no more an event than anything else but just the final of an emergent sequence I never chose to begin. The fact I'm alive at all is fantastic and I'd not be so obstinate to not notice the perks.
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When people are young, they feel invincible. I think as we grow older, many realize they won't live forever and turn to Christ.

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Or whatever make believe fairy tale is the style of the area....
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I'm glad I won't live forever. Why would you want to be immortal? I shudder at the thought of existing for eternity.
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Noveltman, you can make fun all you want. I have felt His presence, and that is such a profound thing I'd be a complete fool to ever question Him!
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jjjjj that tells me everything . You must not be as happy as you claim to be if the thoughts of living forever makes you shudder
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I'm only saying; you believe in Christ because you grew up surrounded by others who believe in Christ. If you had grown up surrounded by people who believed in Allah, you'd feel differently. I promise. I'm not making fun. You feeling His presence isn't special or unexplainable.
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