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5 Proofs God Exists These are not factual, they are theories. Besides Aquinas what proof do we have outside of scripture of God's existence?

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TheHarem


(1) Whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence.
(2) The universe began to exist.
(3) Therefore, the universe must have a cause for its existence.
(4) The attributes of the cause of the universe (being timeless, existing outside of space, and so on) are the attributes of God.
(5) Therefore, the cause of the universe must be God (Genesis 1:1).

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Where there's a building, there's a builder, where there's a creation, there's a creator!
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TheHarem
It is "I AM"
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Ok using the analogy that if there is a creation there is a creator then who created the creator? If there is a god then who created him?
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TheHarem

The question is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, ?What does blue smell like?? Blue is not in the category of things that have a smell, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, God is not in the category of things that are created or caused. God is uncaused and uncreated-He simply exists.
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We know that from nothing, nothing comes. So, if there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence, then nothing would have ever come into existence. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been in existence. That ever-existing thing is what we call God. God is the uncaused Being that caused everything else to come into existence. God is the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it.
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Great answer!
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Harem...BRA--VO!!!!!
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However, you assume that the universe needed a sentient creator, you dodge the fact that god needs a creator, and you assume that the god is the Judeo Christian god.
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Harem: How can you be sure that the universe "began" to exist? Why can't it be eternal, like you believe your god is?
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TheHarem
MarSch....thankyou. ;)
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TheHarem
RevHosanna.... Thankyou. :)
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TheHarem
Zoo......God doesn't need a creator. :)
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um, i can go into the scientific way if you want, i mean, if you will actually listen.
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No there was nothing wrong with my question.
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Why does god not need a creator but everything else that exists does? If you are telling me that everything that exists has a creator, then if god exists he would need a creator. How does it apply to one thing but not the other?
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Jack_Frost
jjjjj13, because the universe i physical. And the laws of matter state the all matter come from other matter, this means it had to have some beginning, making it impossible to eternal.
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rainbows..

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The world is proof God exists.

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BINGO!!! Why is that something so many can't wrap their minds around?
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yes,
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So true!
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Not really. It can be explained by science as well.
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Personally, I believe that most science does not Dis-prove God at all. Who says HOW God created things? He created gravity. So He used scientific ways to create it (or rather to explain it). No conflict there...
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The world existing does not give irrefutable proof that God created the world. What came first the chicken or the egg? This argument can also be used in causation theories of the world's existence. Even Pat Robertson has now accepted modern science to the degree that you cannot fight science and world is more than 6000 yrs old, a long hardened view held by fundementalists..
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Science is only discovering how God created something...
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Can you prove that He doesn't?

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BoxingTally
Can you prove he does?
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No. I just believe. There's no point to the argument because nobody can prove anything?
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You're trying to shift the burden of proof. If you make a claim, you have to prove it.
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Can you prove that unicorns don't exist? If not, I guess you'll have to believe in them, by your own illogic.
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Jack_Frost
Unicorns are a physical being that are not found anywhere in the physical world. This means that the do not exist. GOD on the other hand, is spiritual
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I am not trying to prove he doesn't exist, I was asking if there is proof he DOES exist.
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There is no definitive proof that god exists. People just rely on faith that he is there. For some people that is enough proof but for others like me I don't buy it

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your faith is all the proof you need

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BoxingTally

There is no proof, really. Scriptures aren't proof...every people had stories of gods...

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Read the book titled "Permission to believe" four rational approaches to god's existence. Author Lawrence Kelemen

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The bible says men are without excuse when they look at God's creation. It also says if Jesus didn't really raise from the dead, Christians are the most pitiful people!

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Absolutely true. I am always amazed at His creativity. I see 15 colors in the sky at the setting sun, or a bug created to look like a stick! (I wonder how long it took for that bug to decide he needed to look like a stick to survive. NOT.) Or look how many different TYPES of trees or different types of bugs. Look at all the colors and variations of colors. It is AWESOME! Even as God is awesome!
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I am here
I can think
I know right from wrong
I can reason
I can love
It could only come from God !

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TheHarem
Definitely. :)
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Those can all be explained by evolution... which is why some Christians hate evolution.
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Star, I believe evolution can be the tool (we may be wrong) God used, but it is not god. God bless.
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Good job Vicki
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Jack_Frost
You do realize evolution is a THEORY. That it isnt proven. That it is being disapproved every day. The missing links, pointum egnutum, stuff like that is disapproving atheist's beloved evolution every day
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You do realize you are repeating lies told by conmen who make huge amounts of money selling books and DVDs to gullible Christians?

And do you realize that every time a creationist says evolution is 'just a theory', an educated person dies laughing?
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I'm an atheist and don't understand with all the science breakthroughs happening how people can still believe in god. I do respect religious people though because there's no proof he does or doesn't exist besides people saying oh he must've created it because I can love and crap.

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Yes well a lot of people believe that if you are not a Christian then you don't have morals or are a good person, which I think is a little ridiculous. I'm not really atheist but am not religious at all. Honestly I don't know for sure if there is or isn't a god. But I am still a good person and know the difference between right and wrong.
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I'm glad that you're still able to respect others opinions just as I respect yours. There are some people who will call you crazy because you don't share their opinion. I was an unbeliever at one time, not too long ago so I can't judge an atheist. It took something really radical before I could actually believe.
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PB, I don't doubt that you're a very good person and I would never judge you just because we don't share the same belief. There are many on both sides of the aisle that will slam people that don't believe the same thing that they do.
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Merrill I'm glad that's how you think because I am the same way. Everybody has their own beliefs and everybody is entitled to them. But sadly there are plenty of people out there from all beliefs that can't accept that everyone has their own.
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Not to start anything, but to give my prospective as to why I can still believe even with science... ...understanding how God does/ did it does not deny God's existence. To exemplify this, I know what ingredients go into bread. I know the chemical reactions that are involved for the bread to levin and rise. I know how the temperature of the oven reacts with the yeast filled dough. I know how bread is made. Me knowing this, doesn't deny the baker. Here my understanding if the making if bread is science and the baker is God. I am not asking you to accept this, more than liking you will not, I realize this. You probably even have counter arguments to my thought process. I even acknowledge that not all believers view it this way, I know there are some who don't. But it is my own perception, and it is meant only to provide 1 reason for why 1 believer accepts God, not instead of science, rather with science. As a believer my following statement is not one of malice, but sincerity instead... ...God bless and I hope you have the happiest of New Years.
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Sorry, for being do windy. :)
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I have one, an experience that I had that made me truly believe.

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TheHarem
Can you share with me?
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Me, too!
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Harem and Marsh, could y'all leave your email address and I'll tell you. There are some personal things about my life that I'm not ready to share with everyone yet, I think email would be a much better venue if you could leave me your email addresses I will share my story with you.
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Or I can tell you this, I had an experience much like what you describe on your answer Marsh.
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Isn't God just awesome???!!!
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Yes He is Marsch, when the God of the universe makes Himself real to you, you never forget it. When He speaks to you, it's a very humbling experience. When He reaches down and pulls us out of darkness and despair, there's no doubting Him. The bible likens the Holy Spirit to water, water always finds its way to the lowest place. God has a very special place in His heart for the broken hearted. I'd never want to have my heart broken like that again but I wouldn't trade God's words to me for anything.
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Totally agree. He turned my whole life around, and I love Him for it.
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How are you sure it wasn't the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Even Odin seems more credible. Odin promised to rid the world of ice giants. I don't see any ice giants, do you?

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Well then Odin must exist.
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I hope you are trying to be amusing :)! If by some chance you are not, let's look at this in concept of the times.
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I believe in all things flying and noodly!!!
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Do you beat your slaves? As an Ordain of Veganza, I do no permit such acts.
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You know, people talk about faith as if it's this weird wishy-washy dream of pie-in-the-sky or something. I have faith. But I have faith because I've FELT God touch me and talk to me and comfort me. I've EXPERIENCED Him, therefore, I have faith that He'll always be with me, even though right now I can't see Him. Faith is REAL. And YES, I have MANY questions, but I have faith that God loves me and that He's got my back and will help me get through ANY situation. THAT'S what MY faith is based on... And that is no wishy-washy dream! Not by a long shot. And I know I'm not alone in this...

I wish ALL of you could experience what I have. But you have to ASK Him. Not demand He prove Himself... Or expect Him to JUMP when you say so...

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The thing about faith is that it permeates all aspects of life. Just some struggle accepting that. Faith is not a bad thing, hope you have a happy New Years. God bless.
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Right back atcha. Stay safe...
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The best proof that God exists was an article by Francis Pharcellus Church printed in the NY Times in 1897.

He was writing about Santa Claus but if you delete those references and substitute "God" nobody will notice. The terms are interchangeable.

"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

"Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies ...."

There's lots more than that. It's a delightful article and you can see the full text at http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

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Amen. I think I see the problem here. It seems that neither the hard-core believers (literalists) nor the hard-core rationalists can wrap their heads around the idea of myth & metaphor.
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And that's a pity for them because, interpreting the Bible as metaphor gives a lot more wriggle room.
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It's a lot less problematic, and so much more rewarding, really. Are you familiar with the work of Joseph Cambell? Myths = public dreams, dreams = private myths?
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I've read Campbell but long, long ago. He makes a lot of sense.
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At some point we can not keep taking away evidence and keep asking for more. As for the theories (I actually think they are more so philosophical arguments versus theories, but that is besides the point), the last time a believer acknowledged science as a theory, a non-believer made a reference to gravity and recommended the believer to test it, I am not telling you to do that by any means. But I feel to continue to take away evidence and then say there is no evidence (you didn't say it, but I felt it was an innuendo) is the same as me taking away the fact items fall when let go, and still asking someone to prove the law of gravity. Just my point of view and hope you have a wonderful New Years. God bless.

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You are confusing theory and hypothesis, most people do. In science a theory is actual fact not just a hunch, it will have scientific proof behind it. Most of the time it remains theory because it is not a fully known method or the law is not fully understood. A hypothesis is more of a hunch based on a view of activities that have not been supported by any scientific proof or facts.
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Thanks for the clarification, I will be more careful with my wording next time. :). God bless and happy New Years.
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But I did use that term because that is how the questioner phrased, the parenthetical statement was my attempt to disagree with his/ her wording with out being confrontational. But again I will be more aware of how I word it. Thanks again. :)
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TheHarem
Wiserrt.......Happy New Years to you as well. :)
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Thank you harem. You are too kind. :)
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JamesKaeberle

You will always have non-believers. You all know them. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you have to prove anything to them. It says to Preach The Gospel to all creation. If they receive it then Praise The Lord. If not then shake the dust off your feet and move on. Here's a message from the Lord to all His people. Ignore the foolish and leave them alone for the day will come when they wish they would of listened but it will be to late. God shows Himself real to those who seek Him. For those who wish to make a mockery out of us their days coming. God Bless Everyone. And I pray all wake up before it's to late. And Jesus said I wish that none perish but come to everlasting life.

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You cannot use the Bible as credible factual evidence of God's exiatence. It's authenticity has never been verified as the the original scriptures do not exist. I am certainly not trying to question your faith, which in fact I admire. My study of existing scripture is textual and historical. I use critical thinking as a criteria. In otherwords I am playing the "Devil's Advocate". This method is used as a teaching tool in many religious institutions
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JamesKaeberle
There's were your wrong! Better do more research.
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All evidence of god such as what Aquinas wrote are all hypothetical and only use circular logic as evidence (i.e. "we exist so he has to exist"). Is it possible that god exists? Yes, however is it probable that god exists? No. Of course again this depends on your way of thinking. The idea, as another poster on a different thread put it, of aliens having come to earth is just as possible as the idea of god and there is just as much evidence if not maybe even more.

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