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How can there be an afterlife?

Many people say there is and isn't an afterlife. I don't know what to believe. It seems like smarter people believe there is no afterlife. For instance Stephen Hawking. Someone asked him "why do people want there to be an afterlife?" and his answer was "because they are afraid of the dark." I don't see how our conscious minds can go past this state that we are living in, if it is at all possible. What are your thoughts?

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TheHarem

Jesus is the sole authority and witness who is able to answer the question, "Is there an afterlife?" And Christ, whose truthfulness and integrity are unquestioned even by those who deny His deity, makes three basic statements about the subject of life after death. There is an afterlife, there are only two alternatives as to where we spend the afterlife, and there is a way to ensure a positive experience after death.
Jesus stated the matter simply when He said, "These unbelievers will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:46). Clearly there are two destinations for man after death. One is in the Father's house with Christ, the other in a place of torment, a place of "outer darkness" where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8:12, 22:13, 25:30). There is no mistaking Jesus' words and meaning.
For those who repent of sin and put their faith in Christ as their Savior from sin and Lord of their lives, the afterlife will consist of an eternity spent with God. But for those who reject Him as the only means of salvation (John 14:6), hell and outer darkness away from God's presence is their destiny. There is no middle ground, no intermediate state, no testing ground, and no second chance. As life on this earth ends, life in one place or the other begins and it is so for every human being.

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How can people say .. No !
Happy New Year !!
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Because we don't believe your claims any more than you believe those of other religions.

It's quite easy, actually.
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Great!!
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TheHarem
Thankyou:)
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Star.
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You are amazing. Oh, how the Lord himself must love you. You are beauty, in my eyes. ********************************************************************
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TheHarem
Wiserrt....thankyou kindly. :)
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TheHarem
Shay.....your words are very kind. We all the same, you and me. God gives me his Grace because he knows I especially need his help............
And I'm always asking for it! Chuckle
Thankyou:)
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Easy, there isn't.

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Turtles is right

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Thanks!
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EXACTLY. Steven Hawking you are a genius..

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Noone knows

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Hmm well what sounds better? Living life. You die. You go in a box with a slab of stone and get buried and rot. And your family members believe they never see u again. Or... Living life, dying but then going to a beautiful place where all good spirits go. Paradise you can't imagine!!!! Meeting your old family members being and loving god. It's a matter of religon. plus not all people who don't believe in after lives are smarter then people who do. c'mon.. afraid of the dark? your freakin kidding me. people can't go to SLEEP without the dark. that is SO not the reason why we would believe in an after life

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Exactly. Theres just no way your mind *goes away* after you die.
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Ikr? I'm glad someone here has a brain.
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So just because you don't like reality, there must be a magical fairyland where you live forever and ever? That's not how a rational mind thinks.

All evidence indicates our consciousness is a function of the structure of our brain and nothing more.
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And he wasn't literally talking about the dark. Honestly. It's a metaphor- people invent comforting myths to deal with the unknown, death, or their fears.
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He wasnt talking about the dark? Thats funny. Death without an afterlife is pretty much just eternal, dreamless sleep. So they were in fact talking about the same thing.
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i don't think there is there no scientific proof of an afterlife so nope:)

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"I don't there there is there no scientific proof."
What?
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That implies you think science proves an afterlife. Quite the opposite.
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oops meant i don't think their is any scientific proof sorry i was in a hurry :/
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and if they prove their is one then i will believe in one :)
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Stephen hawking and the like are fools. They think they can apply science to spiritual/philosophical things to form some sort of pseudo-religion. My theory is that religion has always been a threat to oppressive governments, but if course in America you can't just ban it. So this is their way of sort of controlling it. The fact is these things can't possibly be explained that way. They were never meant to. But hey, if you were stuck in a chair, couldnt talk, and had to have someone change your diaper regularly, you'd be angry too.

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Religion usually CAUSES oppressive government.

And Hawking isn't angry at anything. He simy doesn't buy into the grandiose and unsupported claims of religion.
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I dont feel like arguing about this right now.

But why are you so aggressively defending your belief that you die and go absolutely nowhere? Seems pretty self defeating.
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I'm not- I'm simply asking people who make extraordinary claims to actually pony up some evidence to back themselves up. Don't make a claim if you can't support it.
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Wait.. did I just convince you to actually think about something?
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I do a great deal more thinking than those who think their lack of knowledge means the answer is magic.

Again- what I said was that since you are making the claim you need to back it up.
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Nevermind... anyways there can be only two theories. Complete accident, which we know the odds for, and they're astronomical. And intelligent design, which cant be disproven, or proven (at least not to everyone)... if it wasnt a complete accident, it had to be on purpose. The two meanings are opposite. Thus the odds are vastly in favor of me being right, even assuming I dont have faith or my own proof.
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And I hate using the term "intelligent design". It was made up, recently, by creation science people. Humans have always had an ingrained belief in God. Some call him God, some divide into several gods, some consider it an omnipresent force like the Tao. Anyways, we all have it, because it was put there. And I know you have it too. I hope one day you quit being angry, quit trying to suppress it, and just accept that there are some things you'll never be able to understand.
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Actually you are promoting a fallacy called a false dichotomy- there could easily be more than your two choices.

And a straw man fallacy on top of it. The laws of physics aren't random. But that doesn't mean a magical deity is involved.

Plus bare assertion fallacies- making claims that are opinions as though they are accepted facts then basing your argument on them as though they were universally accepted.

Talk to me when you can present an argument that isn't fallacious and doesn't demonstrate a lack of knowledge about science.
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Oh, and "creation science" is an oxymoron.
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Hey, you said it yourself, they weren't accidents. You can use all the big words and arguing techniques you want. But you said it yourself. Rex out.
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"Not random" does not mean "intentional". It just means nature has patterns. There is no evidence of intent, intelligence(quite the opposite) or will.

It's like you purposefully remain ignorant of science so you can keep your beliefs intact.
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That is exactly the case Kitten, "Ignorance is bliss."
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Creationists just can't seem to stay away from the Argument from Ignorance or Personal Incredulity- they don't get it/ believe it therefore god.


It's the same reason primitive man thought lightning was angry gods. You'd think people would have evolved beyond substituting magic for things they don't know by now.
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There is none.

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I just like to think there is. I was born a Christian so it's in my religion, but I have my doubts. I like to think in rebirth that we come back in a different form. It is difficult to think we take our mind into this spirited place, but it's harder to believe that we don't. Maybe Hawkings is right where just scared, because no one knows and there are so many theories.

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True but if you believe in Jesus's story then you SHOULD believe why he got sacrificed. He sacrificed himself for us. So that we could be united above with god!!! Life isn't about living it and then, wups, sorry, rides over, get in the box and you're gonna get put in the dirt to rot forever.
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You either believe what Jesus taught or not. He promises us an afterlife.
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Actually torco, that's exactly what life's about.
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An afterlife exists only as a part of your strongest wishes.

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I believe so there is an afterlife.
Energy never dies. It cannot be destroyed. We are energy. Our soul is energy. Our soul cannot "die". Our soul cannot be destroyed.
I believe in afterlife and reincarnation.

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Except there is no proof that "souls" are real.
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There is no proof that we don't have a soul, either, trust. Btw..happy new year!! Hear any good bands over the holidays? :)
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There's no proof unicorns don't exist either. Do you believe in unicorns?

You can't prove a universal negative. People MAKING an extraordinary claims need to prove them.

FYI- there is good evidence showing "souls" are extremely unlikely.
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other way around!!!
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What? That doesn't make sense.

You're making an extraordinary claim- that souls and an afterlife exist. You have the burden of proof to provide evidence for your claims.

If I claim to have a invisible dragon in my garage, do you need to prove me wrong or else believe it? Or do you rightly ask me to prove the dragon's real?
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The difference being that we are trying to convince you for your own good. You're (sorta) trying to convince us for... still havent told me the reason.
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Ignorance and delusion aren't in your best interest.

And if you actually want to convince people of your claims, you'll have to actually prove them. Your claims of magic after lives are no different than the claims of any other religion- and all have no supporting evidence. So why on earth would I believe any of these claims?
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Nonetheless, I believe in souls. We have something in us. It's not just in some of us-its in all of us. Humans, insects, sea-creatures, pets, wildlife, everything. It's indescribable.
How can that thing inside of you -that soul, if you will- just disappear? Just be dead. Destroyed. Gone. Nonexistent.
It can't.
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Believe in it all you want, that doesn't mean it's real.

There is no evidence souls exist. All research on the brain indicates your consciousness is a function of its structure .

You succumb to the Argument from Personal Incredulity fallacy- YOU don't personally understand how it works, therefore magic/gods.
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Even neuroscientists don't have all the answers to consciousness. The brain is just the vehicle.
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There is no evidence it's a vehicle for anything. If our consciousness and personality were a function of something other than the structure of the brain, brain damage wouldn't be able to cause complete personality reversals.

You still fall prey to "we don't know everything, therefore magic". Just because neuroscience doesn't yet have all the answers doesn't mean something supernatural is going on. That's the sort if thinking primitive man engaged in- they didn't understand lightning, so it must be angry gods. Piffle.
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Because science doesn't have an answer to many things and because we don't know everything, shows that we are much more complex than to just radomly be here and alive breathing.
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No it doesn't, that's the point. All we can say from the fact that we don't know everything is that we don't know everything. It doesn't mean that which we don't yet know must be magic.

Again- man once thought lightning was too powerful to be simply natural, that it must mean the gods existed. Today we know that it's a perfectly natural phenomenon and how it works. You are being those men, looking up at the sky and thinking Thor must be angry.
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No, the more we know things and understand them, is good but still doesn't prove that God doesn't exist or didn't make any of it. It' no magic!
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You can't prove a universal negative. You are making the claim that a god exists- you have no evidence to support it therefore the claim is dismissible.

I don't know why the burden of proof is so hard for believers. If I claimed there was an invisible tap- dancing leprechaun that lived on the sun and demanded your worship, you'd expect evidence before believing it. Now realize your god sounds exactly the same way to us.
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God is spirit and there is no scientific proof. When Jesus walked the earth and performed miracles, people still didn't believe. I don't think any amount of proof would make you believ. Fact is, here is NO proof He doesn't exist. so, no argument is needed. :)
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You really don't get how proof works do you? There's also no proof unicorns exist. So does that mean you're silly enough to believe in them.

You make a claim. You need to prove it. There's no more reason to buy your myths than those of the Norse or the Greeks.

There's also no contemporary historical evidence Jesus even existed.
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No one questions other historical figures that lived years ago ..yet it's history. Even in Isreal, people don't beieve He was God but still know he exisited. And, you cannot prove God does't exist. You would have to be God to do so. :)
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I said "I believe."
I never said it was a fact. And I never said anything religious. I didn't say "God loves us so we go to heaven."
No.
Let me believe.
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Lolo-
Historical figures who have no supporting contemporary evidence ARE questioned. No one said a thing about Jesus until decades after the fact, despite there being dozens of scholars and historians in and around Jerusalem at the time. Not a peep from them, the Romans, OR the Jews. Funny since we do have evidence of Pilate, John the Baptist, and nearly a dozen other figures claimed to be the Messiah at the time- just no Jesus.

And you still keep going on about proving a negative. Maybe you DO believe in unicorns and fairies. After all, you can't prove they don't exist. Better start worshiping Odin and Shiva too- can't disprove them either.

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Those that are mortal & have not experienced the depths & secrets of immortality find it difficult to comprehend anything other than what they see or understand through theory & scientific proof. Everyone has their own beliefs, its ok. This doesn't make anyone evil or discontented in their existence, it just means they are satisfied where they are. In my opinion, there is an afterlife. Spiritual death or immortality.

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TheHarem
Great answer Shay. Happy New Year to you. :)
********
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Happy New Year to you also, my. friend.
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TheHarem
God Bless you:)
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If someone offers you a million dollars : which will you do ?
1. Say its too good to be true .. and refuse to take it.
Or :
2. Take it !!
I'll take HOPE anyday over nothing.

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It's not refusing to take it if hey can't demonstrate they actually HAVE a million dollars.
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Yeh I know Skep : I know something else .. I want to try to make a New Year resolution : I want to try to stop debating questions on this site. I want to try to understand both sides a little better. I can't change others and they can't change me. So why do I debate ? I hope I can make it. It will be hard.
I'm so God hearted .... My faith is so strong .... BUT I can try.
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TheHarem
Betty ...that's a great New Years Resolution. I'll keep that in mind for myself as well.
Really like your answer:)
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A book you can read called "Life after Death, the Evidence." By Dinesh D'Souza

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D'Sousa's a hack.
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maybe in your opinion.
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His writing relies on logical fallacy, assuming the very thing he tries to prove, and personal stories rather than evidence.
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Not true!! Skep..you really cannot prove there is not an afterlife.
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Looks like a good book to me. Might buy it.
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It's very good. :) I got mine from the library. :)
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That works too.
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Apparently you don't understand the Burden of Proof or that it is impossible to prove a universal negative.

You can't disprove fairies, but I'll bet you're not silly enough to believe they exist without evidence.
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There is no evidence that an afterlife exists, and the rational mind does not believe in things without evidence.

That said, I similarly do not claim it's impossible as I am not omniscient and can't know everything. However, it is so unlikely as to be dismissible considering lack of evidence FOR the proposition and what we know about consciousness and the human brain.

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I see it as the other way around. There is so much findings of the human brain and that proves there is more than just the walls of our 5 senses. :)
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Yeah, and you want to talk unlikely, lets talk about your belief that the universe, life, and everything else happend COMPLETELY BY ACCIDENT.
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No- the lack of knowledge about a topic does not magically prove there must be something supernatural going on. It only proves we don't know everything about the topic.
"I don't know" doesn't mean "therefore magic".

@rex-
So you know so little about science that you think the laws of hydrocarbon are random accidents? And again the Argument from Ignorance rears it's ugly head- "I don't get it, therefore god".

Sorry, but when you make claims you have to actually back them up kids. You claim there's an afterlife- prove it.
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Physics. How autocorrect came up with hydrocarbon I'll never know.
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"you know so little that you think the laws of hydrocarbon are random accidents?"

Well, if they're not accidents, then who put them there? God. You practically said it yourself.
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Oh. You meant to say physics. Works even better!
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lol Skep...where have you been all day!!!! You suddenly popped up everwhere...like you came from nowhere. I've been on all day...home sick.
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Uh, no. Keep demonstrating your ignorance of science.

Not random does not mean intentional or intelligent. Natural selection isn't random but also isn't intentional. All "not random" indicates is that nature follows mathematical patterns we termed "laws". There is zero indication any will or intent is behind them. Just wishful thinking on your part.
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There is also no mathematical understanding as to why the space in constantly expanding and speeding up. (it goes against what we know is suppose to happen in science)
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No it doesn't. Do you actually know anything about physics? We EXPECTED the universe to be expanding.

And what would any of that have to do with magic deities anyway?

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What does it NOT have to do with it?? That's just it!! Because we have science, physics, etc., to help us understand us and the universe better, it doesn't equate to there not being a creator who made it all. Why do all athiests equate it to that? There is still so much we don't even understand or know! BTW...we don't expect space to be speeding up. It should be slowing down.
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We expected the universe to be expanding at a constant rate, the expansion is speeding up. We now know of dark matter (the force that holds the universe together) and dark energy (the force that is causing the rapid expansion) We know all of this, and are learning more ever day, because we never stoped with "god did it."
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THERE IS a fine line between science and religion. Science is not legally allowed to step in. I'm not really all into the Jesus and Adam and Eve. I kinda am but one thing I do know is that we are energy and when you die energy cannot be created or destroyed just transformed so if our energy transforms that's already proof of an afterlife.

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I truly believe that there is, and that we will meet our Savior face to face.

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TheHarem
Me too! Happy New 2013:)
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We don't know, and Hawking is right, we are afraid of the unknown. But if someone needs to believe in an afterlife in order to find peace, I will not argue in an attempt to take it away from them.

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That's because smarter people don't believe bs ancient barbarians speculated on without evidence. Half the people who believe this crap only do so because it makes them feel better than imagining eternal absence after death. What in our lives have we seen to suggest life goes on for an individual after they die? Have you ever seen a dead person lookin spry? It's just cold end. No one has died, stayed dead and lived to talk about it so the only people telling you they know are obviously liars. None of us can know for sure until we meet our end and anyone speculating on what happens prolly has a product to sell.

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