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scuffnstuff

Why did Jesus live in obscurity for his first 30 years?

A virgin birth is quite a newsworthy event... one that deserves an ongoing scrutiny. There is diddly-squat recorded in the bible.

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He grew in stature and knowledge. He was preparing and learning.

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He aged 30 years in 30 days.No one thought that was odd?

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What do you mean?
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scuffnstuff
Where does it say that, chris...?
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the Bible
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No it doesn't
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Wat...
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No it doesn 't say that
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Jack_Frost
Chris, have you ever even READ the bible?
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I think Chris is on some sort of acceleration goodies.
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Apparently I missed that chapter!
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Because there were a lot of other 'gods' and 'demigods' around that time. Religion was major back then. Plus, he really started teaching in his 30+ years.

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The Bible tells lots and lots if you read it all.
Where born , presented at the temple , flee to Egypt , return to Nazareth , at age 12 : He teaches the teachers about the Jewish laws , he is baptized , tempted by satan , calls His disciples , preforms many miracles, heals people , died , arose , told us He would return.
I guess His childhood was not as important to put in words as His life as an adult. He probably acted as any child would have other than being smarter than all the Rabbi's.

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From some of the documents found in the Vatican seems to point to the Church destroying the manuscripts they objected to as untrue, incomplete, and heresy. Not the documents themselves but the writings in rebuttal of those text and some complete codices that were burned. The Council of Nicaea in the 3rd century met to decide which books should, and which shouldn't be, in the Bible. So we may never know for sure since we have a censored version.

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Jack_Frost
The council of NICENE, was to decide the books of the bible, you are right. But, the books that werent chosen were not destroyed, they are still around. For example, the gospel according to judas, which i have read. And they were very right in not putting it in! Its INCREDIBLY blasphemous. The vatican library and many other of the world's great libraries have these manuscripts, and they can be read at your pleasure. So dont make it sound like the church has some dirty little secret theyre hiding.
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Jack_Frost
Woops, it was niceae, sorry bout that
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The church DOES HAVE a history of hiding ' dirty little secrets '....eg., turning a blind eye to priest molestation children for decades....allowing a Bishop at the Vatican providing Nazis wanted for war crimes the necessary paperwork, under the auspices of the Red Cross, to escape after the end of WWII .....the list goes on.....and on......sorry but the history speaks for itself. And the documents you speak of are not readily available to the the masses like the bible....oh they are there and can be found....and I'll bet it wasn't the Church that said " Hey, look what we found here, more books of the bible. Oops, sorry we hid them for 18 centuries....our bad." And I don't see the ' lost books ' at the local bible store either. They were VERY WRONG for not putting it in unless they didn't agree with what was written and to say those writings were ' blaspheme ' assures the followers wouldn't dare to read them. What better way to hide them ? All that means is " I don't believe it...and neither should you....you'll go to Hell and be excommunicated if you look at them. "....yeah....great idea.
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Jack_Frost
We CANT add to the bible, that would defeat the entire purpose. And THE BIBLE ITSELF TELLS US NOT TO.

Deuteronomy 12:32 ESV
?Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it.
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Jack_Frost
The crime of child molestation is terrible, but you need to remember priests are humans, they sin too! When a random person does it and its hidden from the media by the police, no one thinks anything of it, but when a priest does it ITS THIS HUUUUUGE DEAL. The nazi was a human being. They were giving him safe passage to escape death. The papacy would have done the EXACT same thing for the allies. Because they dont take sides in wars!
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Jack_Frost
And the books that you are speaking of WERE. NOT. HIDDEN. They were found at the bottom of the dead sea! They are literally called "the dead sea scrolls". And the are VERY accessible! The gospel of judas is on amazon for pete's sake!!!
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Actually they were found in cave like catacombs *near* the dead sea.. the dead seas is not dry, and it certainly wasn't back when the scrolls were written, they would have disintegrated underwater! They were preserved in clay jars by the dry desert air and the seals on the jars.
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Jack_Frost
And no preist or bishop or even the pope can tell you youre going to hell. Thats just stupid.

Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
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Jack_Frost
I guess thats true deana... But you still see my point
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Yes but I think she was speaking of the books which were ... "voted out" of the official doctrine by the special convention of bishops in Constantinople after the Romans had adopted the Christian faith. The DS scrolls were likely intentionally hidden (otherwise why would they be where they were) but likely not by the "church", more than likely they were "hidden" to protect them from being destroyed as they were written during the early stages of the religion when it was still "illegal" (or whatever) to practice it. There is no denying however than there were other "books" that were rejected and are kept in the vaults in the Vatican where only the highest authorities in the Church are allowed access to them. No one knows for sure what exactly is in them.
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You have got to be joking " The Nazi was a human being. ".....WHAT ? 6 million Jews might disagree with that...oh wait...they are dead and can't...not to mention all the others that died as a result of their crimes. " They were giving him safe passage to escape death. "....well DUH...they were war criminals!! Not just one or two Nazis....hundreds....and not all faced death either. " Because they dont take sides in wars! "....again WHAT ? It has been documented that the church DOES take sides in wars...and did in WWII also.

And the reason it is such a HUGE DEAL is because the church PROTECTED these PERVERTS !! Not just one or two every so often either. Did it for decades til someone finally spoke up and was believed....and it has been proven in case after case, http://current.com/1ugsekc Try that on for size and try to convince me it ain't a HUGE DEAL !!

No, I don't mean the Dead Sea Scrolls...I mean what is called the Lost Gospels....whole different text. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_9MfFewdTo
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Jack_Frost
Look man, im not denying that the church has been corrupt. But im gonna stand firm on the nazi thing. If the allies had lost the war the would have just as easily been considered war criminals. And they did not take sides, they said that they disagreed with what the nazis were doing and refused to aid them. Thats not taking sides. There is always a chance for redemption in EVERYONE. The church was simply giving them the chance to redeem themselves by giving them more time on this earth. When it comes to the child molestations, the priests were sinning. The bishop thought that it would be for the best to cover it up. This is OBVIOUSLY wrong. But if you go to the other thread in the post you can read what i wrote about bishops holding each other accountable. The problem was that this bishop took this priest's judgement into his own hands

Jesus said in Matthew 5:17,18 that He did not come to destroy the law. ?Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.?

This is where the bishop sinned. He should not have disregarded the law. But it isnt an entire papal conspiracy! It is the bishops sinning in that they are wielding more power than they wrre ever given.
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HAS been corrupt ? What planet are you living on ? Long as the Pope preaches the wrong of intolerance yet has none for gay folks...he is a hypocrite.

And you keep quoting from a book that has been translated many time into many different languages, heavily censored, whos authenticity is subject to questions since there are other stories from earlier cultures that have way too many coincidences that don't pass the smell test, written down who knows how long after the fact, promoting only one view, and expect me to accept it on faith ? Not a chance...too many ' ifs ' for my liking.
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Jack_Frost
You mean preaches tolerance ;) and we dont have any because the bible specifically says that acting on homosexual feelings is a sin. Its pretty black and white. And as to the translation thing, the pope and most of the cardinals know the original hebrew, no translation necessary.
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Yep...he preaches it but doesn't practice it...that is a hypocrite. What ? Acting on homosexual feeling is a sin....but not a problem with Nazis and pedophiles ? Okay...got it. And so what if they can....that is what the church doctrine was for centuries....and one way they kept the masses in line by not sharing the knowledge so they don't know any different.....God forbid if they question the Church and their teachings.....plus how do I know it the Pope and his cronies are telling the truth unless I can read it too....and here is another problem I have with someone telling me what I need to know ........and as you say ' its pretty black and white '......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/the-bible-telling-lies-to_b_840301.html

http://biblelight.net/banned.htm

And since you haven't commented on them I guess you haven't ( and won't ) look at the links I posted for you ? Do you have an open mind ? Don't forget to ask the churches permission if it is okay.
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Jack_Frost
The reason im not commenting on the links is because i have really strict parents and the blocked the internet on my phone.... And, the nazis were no longer going to act on their feelings, whereas the gays are still acting on them. And like i said before, this isnt a big papel conspiracy. It was the bishops and priests who are to blame, no one higher.
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Jack_Frost
And the pope is most definitely NOT practicing any homosexual actions, so he is practicing what he preaches
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Jack_Frost
And, its not even the pope preaching it!!!! Papel infallibility has only been... For lack of a better word, "used" TWICE in the entire history of the church. Dont blame the pope for doctrines you disagree with. Its the entire catholic faith, not just him
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Ahhhh...so young and to know it all...must be nice. Since you can't research anything to do with the subject then you are just wasting your breath telling me...or anyone...anything other than what your religion says you can....which is biased, censored, and intolerant. When you can talk to me on an adult level...let me know.
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Jack_Frost
Look, I'm going off what i have read in the bible, the catechism, and school history books. In this perspective, i am the MOST unbiased perspective you could possibly hear. I haven't been influenced by any of the media in todays society. Media that you are basing your entire opinion on. When YOU can talk to me on a level that hasn't been stained by the masses, let me know.
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Jack_Frost
God bless
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Since you can't look for yourself how do you know they are influenced by anything but the truth ? YOU DON"T !! When you become an adult....let me know.....until then, and you have ALL the information in front of you...even the stuff you don't agree with and actually read it before you claim it ain't true or ' influenced '.....THEN I'll respond....until then don't waste my time. You only want your version and no others......sorry...the real would ain't like that.....but you wouldn't know. Come talk to me in 10 years or so.
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Luke 2:40 & verse 52. " The child grew and became strong; He was filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon Him." " And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." He was a child. He needed time to grow spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally and that's just what He did.

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If I remember correctly it is the gospel of Judas, that give a very vivid childhood story about Jesus. It is not considered gospel by the christian churches, but it is an interesting read. This Judas was not the one that betrayed him in the bible this is suppose to be Jesus brother Judas.

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He grew in knowledge, and he learned to be a carpenter

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Jack_Frost

Its not included in the bible because, honestly, we didnt NEED to know! Its just fine to know, but the bible is meant to be a tool to guide us to christ in heaven, not a documentary.

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We don't need to know ? Really ? I suppose then you are happy with your blissful ignorance of the truth ? I want the truth.....and sure don't think the church should be lying.....especially since I seem to remember something about bearing false witness is a no-no.
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Jack_Frost
Their not lying, they arent even hiding anything! Ive read the gospel of judas which gives a VERY detailed of jesus' early life. And i got it from our CHURCH library. Just because its not in the bible doesnt mean their hiding it, it just means that nothing is in there that is important for our salvation!
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Good book called "The lost years of Christ". He was traveling and learning. Very interesting stuff. But all of the old christian dudes destroyed records so they could control things.

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Well he was a child growing up during most of it. And he had a family to look after, esp after Joseph died. As oldest son he would have been responsible for getting his brothers and esp sisters settled in apprenticeships or marriages. As per Gods plan Jesus left his old life behind completely at age thirty and became a traveling pastor.

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Jack_Frost
Jesus didnt have any brothers or sisters...
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Of course he did. Bible mentiins them in several places. Larger families were commin then. Im guessing youre catholic. Only you catholics dont want to admit Mary was a normal married woman who has sex with her husband and gave him his own genetic children in addition to Jesus. Jesus had at least two brothers and sisters are mentioned as well.
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That ain't the only thing most Catholics don't want to admit. Their intolerance and hypocrisy are legendary.
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Agreed. Ruled by the most corrupt and brutal religio-political office (the papacy) that has ever existed.
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Jack_Frost
Give me a reference to his so called "family" in the bible. And if you want i can give you a reference where jesus actually establishes peter as the father of the church (pope means father in latin, ie. peter was made the first pope)
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Jack_Frost
And if you could also reference our "hypocrisy", that would be MUCH appreciated, because as far as i know we have not been hypocritical in any way
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Jack_Frost
And he wasnt a traveling pastor, he was a traveling preacher and prophet. Pastors are the spiritual leaders of a christian church in a select location, therefor making the phrase "traveling pastor" contradict itself.
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Jack_Frost
And if you want to say that they are corrupt, say historically. Because i will admit that the church became corrupt when the mob ruled over it, and when the anti-popes of avingon came to power. But after the protestant reformation we took stock of our selves, had a meeting (you may have heard of it, the council of the vatican 1). ALSO, if you want to say brutal actually READ your history. The church realized it was losing followers due to language barriers and strict traditions. So the held ANOTHER council (vatican council 2) to help get the congregation to take part more in the mass while staying true to the bible and tradition. And if you have a problem with the whole tradition thing i can MORE THAN HAPPILY provide you with a reference where St Paul tells the Thessalonians to stay true to the traditions that had been instructed by him and the other early church fathers.
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Jack_Frost
And what "intolerance" do we commit? We have opinions, just like everyone else. To say that we are intolerant is to say that you are or my friend is or my teacher is intolerant or that your father is intolerant!
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Jack_Frost
And there are SOOOO many places where it speaks of the VIRGIN marry. To name but one, luke 1:34, "'how will this be,' mary asked the angel, 'since i am a virgin?'" To deny her virginity is to deny that jesus is the one true son of God!
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Jack_Frost
And that vatican 1, thats just the LATEST ONE. Theres also been the council of ephesia, the council of nicea, the council of trent. Look, the pope and the bishops are all human, they still sin. Before the dawn of modern technology no one questioned them, EVER. So the power would sometimes go to their heads. Remember this were some of the most powerful positions in the world (the pope arguably still is). Nowadays if a rouge bishop or priest starts preaching something thats un-cathecuminal, SOMEONE is going to stop him. No one ever would before because they thought they would go to hell. But now that we as catholics are actually EDUCATED in our faith we realize that thats not the case whatsoever. Again, when the church was corrupt, 80% of people in the world were poor, uneducated, farmers! If someone who they KNEW for a fact knew more about their own faith than they did (ie. a priest bishop or pope) they would listen without question. But now we DO question, now we do keep the bishops in check. And now they keep each other in check! It used to be a bishop was almost like his own little king or his diocese, and he was threatened by all other bishops, making them enemies. Now the bishops are more like fathers than lords, and they arent enemies. So if one falls or the good and righteous path the others will help him get back up again.
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Jack_Frost
And you talk about larger families being "common" back then. Well, jesus wasnt exactly common, as you know, so thats not a very good excuse
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Wow Jack...you have a VERY one-sided view of history and facts. But I would expect nothing less.
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Jack_Frost
Oh really? And what, might i ask, is the other side?
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Jack_Frost
Or, you could at least answer my questions, you did, after all, attack my religion. Its only fair i think
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Jack_Frost
that you should answer my questions
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I have tried but you have ignored them or you would ask me that. So I'll give you a few more......

http://www.holocaustrevealed.org/_domain/holocaustrevealed.org/Church/Vatican_Hiding.htm

http://ww2resource.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-truth-about-pius-the-nazi-ratlines/

OHhhhh nooooo the Church didn't take sides in WWII.....oh wait...let me guess your answer....they were ' rogues and sinners ' so now that makes what they did okay in your eyes, right ?
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Jack_Frost
What the nazis did, isnt ok. What the church did, is mercy. And i mean the questions that i posed in this thread, of which you havnt answered one. Even the WWII question is from another comment
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Do me a favor please....find a group of nice old Jewish folks with fading blue numbers tattooed on their arm, look them in the eyes and say to them that " Nazis are humans beings. They were just trying to escape the death penalty. " and " What the church did, is mercy. "........ let me know how they answer you .

Next....find a few of the many victims of pedophile priest and say to them " Why are you making a huge deal out of this ? "....let me know how that turns out too.

Maybe I haven't answered every one of your question...give me a list and I will.
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Jack_Frost
I will do both of those without fear. And you can look back in these comments yourself
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Without fear before, maybe....afterwards, maybe not so much. Your statements prove you don't have a clue. Not your fault tho....when you get old enough and are an adult, you will understand better. Don't brag about what you will do....if you survive, then you can talk about what you did. Don't brag....only bullies and cowards brag.

And no point....how can I prove anything when Momma and Daddy won't let you play with the big boys ? But I am sure they are doing what they think best.
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Jack_Frost
Im not bragging in the slightest. Im a theater nerd, a wimp, and an overall weakling. But it doesnt matter, because i have the love of the lord. Because i have faith that he will guide my words when i am in the presence of those who seek the truth. You just seek to disrupt, cause chaos, and hate. The only other person i can think of that does this is the devil himself. But brother, it is never too late. Repent, delve into the bible, take hold and actually study it for yourself! Dont read an article about the gospel of john, actually READ the gospel of john! Form YOUR OWN opinion, dont just accept someone elses! Jesus is reasy to give you all the love he has, he is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU! But are you willing to accept it? Ive asked you for SCRIPTURE references, something that Protestants are normally able to pull out in a heart-beat. And yet, all you give me are news articles and blogs and websites? You are letting the media control your opinion of religion. Oh, how much i pity you... Please brother, i ask you, no, i PLEAD with you, form your own opinion, dont just take another person at their word.
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Jack_Frost
God bless
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Boy...I have read the bible before your parents were a gleam in your Grandparents eyes. I was forming my own opinions when your parents were still peeing and pooping on themselves. You should heed your own advice.....don't let you opinion on religion be influenced by only one source. But people like you never do.
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