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Atheists, why do you have faith that schools and television are telling you the truth?

It's just come into my mind that, if you cannot see evolution or anything happen FIRST HAND...you must exhibit some faith, that what everyone is telling you, is true.

Not only that, but many scientists throughout the years, have been proven wrong. All men of science once believed that the earth was flat, then that the universe revolved around earth, and so on.

Just something to think about.

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Well, actually we CAN see evolution and everything else happen FIRST HAND. And second, I'm not going to pretend to think that everything the media teaches me is correct but a lot of things are. As for schools, well, it's coming from an EDUCATED person unlike those who wrote the Bible or follow the Bible. And third, I don't have faith. This is a Christian thing where they try to claim that everything is based on faith and therefore atheists must have faith in something. No, as atheists, most of us do not have faith.

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And actually they weren't men of science either. They were men of religion. It was the catholic church that had been in power and it was the catholic church that said that the earth is flat. But then we have the guy, Galileo I think his name was, that went against the church and said that the earth is not flat.
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Oh, I'm sure we CAN observe it first hand, but you haven't, have you?
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Yes, I have actually. That's the difference between evolution and religion. Religion says god created everything. Evolution says monkeys come from monkeys and humans come from humans. Do we see humans giving birth to humans or do we see humans coming from nowhere? We see the birth. So yes, we do actually see all this first hand
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Nice!
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Good answer!
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Nice indeed. Have a Star!
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Please, stop using religion as a base.
I AM NOT religious, so you have nothing to prove to me on that hand.
But, evolution in the sense that we slowly change over the years, YOU have not observed, so you must have faith that we do.
I have observed it first hand, so I know that it is true, but YOU must observe faith that I am telling you the truth.
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c': oh passage, you're my favorite
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I have told you once again, I have indeed observed evolution. You claim that I do not. You have no proof that I haven't. And yet I have given you proof that you have. Thank you very much. I rest my case here.
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*proof that I have
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being an atheist does not require any sense of faith. whatever these Christians or believers tell you, just know they're trying to make you like them
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Evolution does not say monkeys come from monkeys and humans come from humans. Genetics says that. Evolution is a theory of how new species come into existence, and I think there's a point regarding the validity of evolution since the term species is very much in dispute in the field of biology.
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Passage, no one told me to say this.
You're beginning to sound like a preacher.
You say that you have seen evolution first hand, because you HAVE NOT seen the opposite occur, which is not at all the same.

I am a STRONG atheist, but you do not seem to see my point.
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Again, you do not seem to see my point. I have told you that I have seen evolution occur and you deny it by saying that I don't. You don't know if I have because you don't know what kind of person I am. It's not that I haven't seen the opposite occur. It's that I've seen evolution occur.
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@swallex: thank you
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No, you are beginning to fight as the religious often do.
You have not presented any evidence that you have seen evolution occur other than your faulty definition of evolution.
Evolution is the ultimate alteration of all living things through time to suit their survival needs.
If you can provide any words of how you have seen THAT, please tell me, and I will back off.
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I will be gone for a few hours, so please do not assume you've won, simply because I'm taking a while to reply.
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Bubalu- I am a biologist, and though there are many definitions of species (dependent on the type of organism and how they reproduce), we have witnessed speciation for every type.
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So... you ask me for evidence that evolution is true and yet you provide nothing of your own? I think not,
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I doubt the validity of "we have witnessed speciation for every type," especially since there are species that have gone extinct before homo sapiens and there must be some that weren't preserved in the fossil record.

But that doesn't address the probably that the definition of species is variable because then how do you know there is actual speciation? I mean there are garter snakes in California where two subspecies would never reproduce because of mating seasons, but are still considered the same species since there is genetic exchange through intermediate subspecies. Then you have polar bears and grizzly bears who have mated in the wild and produced viable offspring, but still considered separate species. Without a accepted idea of speciation, it seems evolutionary biology is an inexact science like economics or psychology.
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Passage.
All I'm asking, is that you give an example of when you've seen evolution.
I've seen evolution on a microscopic level, viewing bacteria evolve.
I don't see what's so hard about this subject.
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Well, that's great, because I've seen the same thing, Of course, because the bacteria are so tiny that's the only way we would ever be able to observe evolution. Microevolution. It would take more than hundreds of years to observe evolution from a bigger level.
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Okay, thank you.
That was ALL I was asking for.
Thank you for your input, have a nice day.
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No. I said every type, not for every species. The definition of species varies by organism and reproductive type, but since we know what constitutes a species for those organisms we know when they speciate.
There are hundreds of examples of observed speciation- nothing in exact about it.
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What do you mean by every type? That's pretty vague? Are we talking genus? Family? I can tell you there's no definitive answer as to what constitute a species based on that. But if you know what a species is, please give me an example. My degree is in cell and molecular biology and even with genetic markers you can't tell with any real specificity when a group of organisms becomes a separate species.

And most observed speciation has occurred with fruit flies in terms of food, mating, and preferred habitat. If anything, that qualifies as a subspecies much like dogs instead of a separate and distinct species that cannot produce viable offspring.
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Same thing with you. You've just never questioned your religion. There are many things in the bible that can be proven wrong. We chose to think about it logically.

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I'm not religious.
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Then the answer I gave wont matter. I answered according to how you worded your question,you atheists, seems I'm guilty of profiling, sorry.
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I'm not atheist, but I'm going to answer this anyways.
There may not be hardcore proof, but there is more proof to that than to religion.

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True That
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I agree that I can observe proof in the fallacies of religion, but have YOU ever had a first hand view of evolution? If not, then you have FAITH, that it is true.
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I'm not saying that they don't have faith in it. But that is one explanation. However with religion, there are many since there are many religions. Therefore it is easier to believe in something that is unchanged
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Makes more sense then a women suddenly being turned into a pillar of salt... Or a talking snake... Or women being made out of a rib...

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You're getting this all wrong.
I'm an atheist.
I'm simply trying to put us all in their shoes.
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Your_Little_Helper -- what happens if I have to go on a low-salt diet and I develop a fear of being turned into salt? Do I see a therapist or just find a snake to talk to? It's hard to find a snake where I live. I need help with this pressing problem.
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RedRose
rathkeale-if you dont mind the smell, a woman shaped rib can be really helpful in these kind of situatuons. I hope this helps. good luck.
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No one has found The Truth and answer to life, therefore I collect information and use my observations to determine that evolution is a more valid theory than an invisible higher being.

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didn't even say anything about the world being flat either. well, I added that as a comment in my answer
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Great point.
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That is the best way to put it.
Thank you.
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Thanks guys :)
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I just realized how cute you are ninja ;)
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helixaqua

Religion thought the world was flat and Earth was the center of the universe...science PROVED religion failed at its beliefs again. I do believe in science over religion because myth and magic is a man made concept.

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*says southernly* I DO BELIEVE!
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I understand what you're saying, but it was actually an astronomer who studied the stars, and assumed his own planet to be the center of the universe.
Religion did not dictate that we are the center.
The point I am trying to get across, is that you are expressing FAITH.
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helixaqua
And other astronomers proved him ( Ptolemy) wrong ever since...and quickly after.
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helixaqua
Don't forget...a priest is the one who came up with the Big Bang theory.
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Exactly.
So how long until he may be proven incorrect?
We all have faith that the answer is never.
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helixaqua
Astronomy proved creation to be wrong. I'm an astronomer and I don't know one astronomer or scientist who believes in creation.
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Nor do I.
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helixaqua
Sorry it took so long...I'm actually driving while I do this. Good question by the way. We need more intelligent questions on here.
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Shame shame! To the corner!
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helixaqua
It was a great question!! That's rare on here! :)
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Just as theists have faith in God, atheists have faith in their beliefs, whether it is evolution or any other type of a beginning. Neither God nor evolution can be proven.

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Well, by definition of proof, evolution can be proven.
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In the eyes of some...............
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Proof
Noun
Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.
Evidence
Noun
The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

There is an available body of facts supporting evolution, so it can be considered proven...
in ANYONE's eyes


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I'm in your corner regarding evolution. It's the bible thumpers that say there is no proof. That's why I said "in the eyes of some".
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There is no faith involved in accepting things that have objective, verifiable evidence like evolution.
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There are many people that only believe what they can see and touch. Those that can get past that, have faith.
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And that...was the point of my question.

You are on the exact same level as I.
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Im am an atheist, because i don't believe in 'god' or that he made humans or that there is a heaven , think about it if there was a 'god' , why is there cancer or miscarriages or murderers?? I just think if 'god' exists then why do those things do?? I go to a Catholic and in religion classes when they explained the doings of 'god' , i just thought BULLSHIT and this is ABSOLUTE CRAP. Im not trying to tell anyone what to believe but that is my belief. My dad and my sister are both agnostic but my mom and brother are Catholic.I hope this answers your question ...

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It does not.
I am an atheist.
The question is, "do you accept the fact that you have faith, even in atheist views?"
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I don't just believe whatever is told to me. I must be given evidence. Faith is belief under threat as well. Science does not demand you believe anything but in my experience- it's foolish to touch fire. We don't need to believe in order to know science is true- it's self evident- something god can never be. I have no faith in anything but somehow my science labs always go exactly as predicted yet my prayers go unanswered. This is very telling about the nature of myself and faith. Science requires none and I have none. Bible says god demands it yet I see no observable difference from it either way if it does exist. It does not take a genius to absent mindedly complete a lab task and yield predicted results- it does however take creative thinking to look at a vegetable on a hospital bed and call it a miracle that they lived- all I see is a tragedy. As far as the media goes, it's BS until I can prove it isn't to myself. Skepticism is a lifestyle- not a religious deflection device.

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The fact that you have experimented, is proof enough.
Well stated.

(just so you know, I am an atheist)
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Thx, I gathered that from other answers. I assumed theist when reading the question but I don't adjust much if at all when presuming someone's position. I favor consistency over fervor.
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Why do you have faith that church and Bible are telling you the truth? The church is made up of people, who in the past, have used people's faith for the their own gain. The first thing that comes to mind are televangelists and the Catholic church. And the Bible is a collection of stories written and handed down by people and we all know how stories change over time. Look at the whole Jesus being born during the winter and Christmas. Just something to think about too.

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I do not have faith that the church and the bible are telling the truth.
I am an atheist, and being an atheist, I have noticed that most of our arguments are not of why we believe what we do, but rather of why we don't believe what they do.
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I think I see your point in the other comments that people believe in what they're told by science authority figure (teachers, scientists, etc.) like people do in religion when told by a priest or minister. I can agree with that since most people have not seen an atom so they cannot know it exists except for what they read in and are told by their teachers. How can they be sure things are made up of atoms or elements of those atoms, except through faith.
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Babalu, we can cite the numerous different sources that support these theories and facts about atoms, science and the like. As we all know, religions cannot make that claim.
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TheZ, we understand that there are many MANY examples of ways to prove evolution, we are just saying, that you have to have faith, that they are true.
Because if you ask, the religious will claim that they have many sources, and they also have faith that they are true.
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That's the thing, citing numerous different sources that support theories and facts about atoms and science is the same as going to the Bible or whatever religious book and saying it supports your belief. If I asked you how do you know an atom exists and you tell me all these books tell you so, how is that different asking someone how do you know God exists and them telling you all these books tell me so? If the only response is we have more books and sources, isn't that the same as saying we have more people that believe? Until you see an atom for yourself and do the science, you're taking it on faith that it's correct and exists.
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Let's dispel any notion that atheists are under the spell of some singular teaching, a quality which defines religion. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods or religion. Often, nonbelievers have tread the religious path and found it wasn't credible for them, many finding too much evidence to the contrary. Others simply have no use for religion. You will find most atheists are well versed on why they believe as they do, (plenty of examples given already) and it's just silly to say TV or some school were the basis. Is that how you formed your beliefs? Of course not.

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Well stated.
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As one of those atheists who simply has no use for religion, nicely stated!
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Ditto, ynp. That doesn't mean folks like us don't understand it, though.
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Absolutely correct!
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Your question assumes there's some sort of a conspiracy behind science, there is none. Only the ardently religious believe such a thing, because they cannot deny the overwhelming amount of factual data that is presented to them. When someone is so convinced of their beliefs they will form a conspiracy in their minds to more easily rationalize their fantasy as a viable alternative.
Unlike religion, those of us that understand and accept various theories that science has presented do so from multiple sources. As you stated in your question we'll even change our understanding when new evidence is discovered. A belief is just that, a belief, it has no evidence or testable theories. On the other hand science can, and does, provide these things, it may not give us a warm-cushy feeling, but the real world rarely does.

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I am not religious.
I agree that science makes far more sense, being that it all forms together flawlessly compared to religion.
But, you must accept that, theories that you have not tested first hand, require faith.
Evidence is can only be considered evidence, when it is observed, and if you have not observed evolution, then you must have faith that it is real.
I have seen evolution occur on a microscopic level, so I can say that I have evidence in it's facuality.
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Well what you're saying is that I can't really believe that a tree falling in the woods makes a sound because I was not there to hear it. Since you are an atheist I'm sure you've debated the issue of evolution with a Christian, yes? This subject often comes up and I point out the ignorance of that standpoint in the way I just did, it usually shuts them up.
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Evidence that is objective and verifiable need not be directly observed anyway. We know Lincoln gave the Gettysburg Address, despite the fact that we have not directly observed it. This requires no faith, as we have a plethora of verified historical sources to illustrate that fact.
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It's ok Calu.....I heard the tree fall.....it was only a block or so away from my tree ;0)
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Haha! Next time try and record it for me so I can be sure, My book of magic doesn't cover that topic so I'm not allowed to entertain your opinion ;P
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I'll set up my beta video recorder for the next time....
;0)
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calu, that was a very good point.
I am glad that I will no longer have to ponder this question.
I thank you for being so logical.
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We don't. That's the great thing about science- you don't need faith because there is evidence. That evidence is widely available and verifiable.

FYI- you CAN see evolution first hand. As a microbiologist, I see it at work every day in my own lab.

And yes- science must be falsifiable. That means that as technology advances we might learn some things were wrong. However, evolution can not only be witnessed first hand, but has held up to and been supported by every piece of data and fact from the last 150 years. It's more solidly supported by evidence than gravity.
You realize the fact that science can adapt to new information is a strength, not a weakness? It's why it is such a powerful tool- it adjusts itself as our knowledge and technology grows. This is the exact opposite of religion, which clings to the same beliefs even once it becomes clear that they just aren't true. Remember, it was science that discovered the earth revolves around the sun, and religion that screamed it was heresy.

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I just asked myself "Why am I not following Skeptikitten?" and then I followed you :D
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Excellent!
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You have to follow Kitten, she's our resident atheist biologist ;)
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Fascinating science. Kudos to you, kitten.
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I do not think that acceptance of scientific theory is the same as faith. Faith denotes a religious concept whereas acceptance can be on any level.
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Acceptance means that there is evidence to support it although we have not physically witnessed it. Science is continuously evolving as well. The more we learn, the more our understanding grows.
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Faith means belief in a specific doctrine that does not change and remains static.

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Alright, I suppose.
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Science is built in evidence and method of deduction, not on faith. Perhaps we cannot see directly macro evolution, but very little in the physical universe is directly observed. No one has ever seen an electron directly. But only a fool will use that to doubt the existence of electrons. Indeed many a man of science has been wrong before. We take this as evidence for the strength of science, not its weakness: science can and does correct itself, given new evidence. When evidence for a spherical earth was gathered, scientists abandoned their previous conceptions, that were based on evidence limited to short distances, therefore not revealing the curvature of the Earth's surface. Men of religion, however, never admit being wrong, and never correct their faith based on new evidence. That's the weakness of faith. If you accept that gravity exists, even though our present conception of gravity is very different from Newton's, say, you must also accept that evolution exists.

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Good points, all.
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Yes good show mate
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A Christian with doubts, there's is a god, after all.

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I don't believe in the propaganda box

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wickedpissah

We don't. Who ever said atheists believe the television? Wow.
Television is a commodity used for lulling the masses into complacency so a small elite can control their thoughts and their desires... (just like religion).

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Actually, the Earth was proven to be round by mathematicians in the late BC. Only the most stupid and gullible of people thought the Earth was flat back then.

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