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Atheist now outnumber Mormons in the U.S. what are your feelings on this?

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the atheist tabernacle choir is doing a Christmas show this year

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Lol!!!
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lol!!
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Suzie17
Hahaha!!
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Clever
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hahahahahhahhahahhahahhahahhahahah that's a knee slapper!!!
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My feelings? Good for them, Everyone has a right to what they believe in, even if it may be Science they believe in.Though really nothing major changes because of this...

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One of the nice things about science is that it requires no belief! Scientistic people tend to be atheist, though. I guess you could say we "trust" science.
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I don't care what people believe in the only thing I can control are my own as long as people don't cause me problems I don't care what they are and I'm religious I've met great atheist but also rude ones but that's the same for every belief

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so what didn't change the price of gas

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Lmao
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Suzie17
Hahaha!
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You want a standing novation?

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So your taking the wide road instead of the narrow road despite the warning good for you .
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In the US, the wide road is most certainly parroting supernatural beliefs.
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wickedpissah
flyby- your comment is a perfect example of why so many people are leaving religion. your thinly veiled threat is just that - a threat.
and that's all religion offers - threats.
thank you for demonstrating that.
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I just like "standing novation". Almost like it's a nod in my direction!
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It's "ovation", dimwit.
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I read ah as in sob.
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Skepti, they might have liked novation because its a portmanteau of no and ovation, signifying that they not only want to be obviously and obnoxiously sarcastic, but they also want to signify that they disagree, making that statement a double negative. By this, fly by night is uttering a silent plea for us to help her out of her religious tomb, as she is telling us she agrees with us.
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From the tenor of the other posts of his/hers, I doubt he/she knows what a portmanteau is.
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I'm ignoring you right now.Im on to bigger better things.So enjoy the fly roast.Over and out.
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I can't hear you la la la la hand over ears.
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Hang up good by.
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How is running away like a little kid "burning" anyone?
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wickedpissah
What's a "fly roast"?
Who roasts flies?
There's like no meat on them at all.
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Pound for pound, actually, they contain more protein than steak.
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Obvious has changed his picture profile and it looks much better he looks like a nice young man
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Perhaps that will teach you a lesson about judging people by their arbitrary profile pictures.
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actually I don't care

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Excellent! Why don't we have as much say in the political arena?

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inevitable. Everything decomposes to its most basic components. In a matter of words, gravity is on our side.
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LeahChristine
Hi caluvox. I'm back under a different name. I had a Fundamentalist stalker on this site and had to leave for awhile. I was Jenni18.

You are gaining momentum in the political arena and things are changing fastly in the world. Religion will eventually be done away. Especially, if the news of a scandal involving the pope is true. Some allege that he stepped down because of scandal in the Vatican. We will see how that plays out. Catholicism is sitting on a lot of wealth and the UN will go after that.
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LeahChristine
"changing fastly in the world" should be "changing fast in the world."
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Maybe if i cared......well idk because i don't.

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As long as I can still eat pizza, I don't really care.

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I think the WW2 vet I talked to the other day said it best. There are no atheists in a fox hole being sprayed with bullets.

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rustyboilerz
Agreed! Good one Dawn.
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That there are no atheists in foxholes isn't an argument against atheists. It's an argument against foxholes.
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Hey Rusty!
Just wondering where that comment you posted went.
I spent time trying to make a point and I'm guessing you didn't want others to see it so you deleted it. Is that right?
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I don't think ask users can delete their own comments. Only mods can.
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That's nonsense, and the atheists in our armed forces take serious offense to this kind of prejudiced crap.
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Well isn't there a time period where you can edit it? And I meant an answer to a question, not a comment on someone else's answer.
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Ah yes. One can edit answers, but you said "comment".
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My mistake haha. And he hasn't responded, so I'm going to venture a guess and say I'm right about that. Or maybe he's busy.
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Maybe it was a mod. I don't think you can actually delete your answer, you can just change it.
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hmmog. slow down. breath. no offense to my soldiers out there. I meant / he meant that when you are side by side in a fox hole you don't care who is beside you as long as you work together against the enemy. And they can shoot straight.
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Dawn, you clearly meant that in a derogatory way towards atheists.
Novel, I don't know why it would get deleted though... you don't see any answer from him, do you?
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lol. no. no I did not. I think you should have listened to his whole story. I of course couldn't repeat it all but the thing about the atheists and the fox hole and the guns was part of the ?'s people asked him about he gave his speech. The guy was fascinating to listen to and people asked his take on the different headline news.
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I saw the same sort of argument in a book I read. I forget the name but it was about Louis Zamperini. He was saying he was praying to any god out there to help him from dying. I don't think I would be like that though. I'm not really worried about death(I just hope it isn't too painful or prolonged).
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I will have to read it. But truthfully I have an intense respect for all of the soldiers. I also respect everyones beliefs. Even the ones I disagree with....Some of the most fascinating people to talk to are the WW2 vets. I always watch for them everywhere I go. If you ever get a chance to sit and talk to them you should.
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Unbroken: A World War II Story of Survival, Resilience, and Redemption- Laura Hillenbrand

It's a great book. I'm sure you'll like it.
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thank you
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That is a good book Kilgore!
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No problem! Anybody that enjoys reading books is a friend of mine haha.
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That completely contradicts what I heard from a Vietnam vet that I talked to.
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@trusty - What?
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Vietnam vets believe in God.
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That's a mighty generalization...
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There is even an organization called 'Atheists in Fox-holes' for atheist veterans. Atheists do not suddenly get religion when they are under fire... in fact the opposite. Many soldiers become atheists after seeing the horror, futility and injustice of war, they just can't see how a just and loving god could possibly allow it to happen.
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Believers in God are just so certain that an atheist faces danger, or death, or destruction, and cries out to God for mercy. I mean, we know this isn't the case, but look at right after Hitchens died: Did you see all the bullsh about how he recanted on his deathbed and cried out to God?
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ITS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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i love your positive attitude. I was stoked too :j
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It's not surprising that atheism is on the rise.However it is interesting to note that the most shocking denial of God's authority comes not from atheists Christendoms clergy, who have substituted man-made traditions for pure Bible truths. (Compare Matthew 15:9.) Additionally, they have backed the bloodiest wars of the 20th century, thus rejecting the Biblical command to display genuine love.-John 13:35. The clergy have also denied God by turning their backs on his moral standards-as evidenced, for example, by a steady stream of lawsuits against pedophile priests. In 1803, United States president Thomas Jefferson wrote: "To the corruptions of Christianity, I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself." Yes,there is a difference between Christendom and Christianity. Many of Christendom's tenets are founded upon the traditions of men. In contrast, true Christianity bases its beliefs solely upon the Bible. Thus, Paul wrote to the first-century Colossians that they should acquire "accurate knowledge," "wisdom," and "spiritual comprehension."-Colossians 1:9,10.

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rustyboilerz
Great post.
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This was a bit off topic.
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bentheredunthat
Very good. Not sure if this is true, or even relevant to this comment, (sorry) but the problem w/ priests praying on boys began centuries ago. The Bible forbid priests & holy men from laying with girls, women & other men - but not boys, specifically. Or, somehow it was worded too loosely. Corrupt cardinals & priests, & the Church, supposedly overlooked the point of the commandment & used it as a loophool to meet their sexual needs. And why altar boys were needed & kept close.
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very thoughtful answer.
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nice try but I don't think so sexual needs ? they twist that but ignore the duties of a priest
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LeahChristine
Great answer. You and I think alike.
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It makes me wonder if this is a direct consequence from the last Presidential election.

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wickedpissah
Wow. There is literally NOTHING that people can't or won't use as a means of bashing President Obama.
It's amazing.
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I think he meant that Obama actually acknowledged unbelievers in his inaugural address and actually treats us like citizens, unlike certain Bushes I could name.
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.....I think that's a joke.
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I simply meant that Rmoney was Mormon, and he failed. That tends to cause people who are Mormon to feel like failures, and to leave the faith.
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Since the comment got deleted I will write the response here
So I said that it was rude that you were bashing on religion because I am religious and felt offended but I know rusty was also bashing on atheism so I know how you feel it's best to ignore because everyone has their opinions and its better to just let others believe in what they believe in
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Ingle: Mmm'okay. When I (as you say) "bash" religion, though, notice how I use facts and proven science to so so? When people bash atheists, .... well it's not like they can use scientific facts.
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Still your saying someone's opinion is wrong and as much as science is proven correct they have never 100% proven God wrong and I don't care for extreme religious people being rude either disrespecting is disrespecting no matter how you do it
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Kindly pointing to facts has no malice associated with it.
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Well if you said that God has not been proven I really wouldn't care because that's true but saying he simply doesn't exist which is what I understood you say is different forgive me if I misunderstood
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No no. You got it right. Only there was no derogatory undertone. He simply doesn't exist.
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lol.. So I'm guessing you're not exist
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And don't tell me you came from an ape or a monkey
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wickedpissah
We didn't just come from apes. We are apes. Humans are one of the five species of great apes.
But no, we're not monkeys. Monkeys and apes are two different categories of homonids. We share a common ancestor with monkeys and with the other apes, but we are not monkeys.
We are apes.
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Stating that there is no evidence your god exists is not derogatory. It's fact.
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God created man and woman and he also created animals after their kind. Humans will pro created humans and ape will pro created ape same as monkeys and the rest of the animal after their kind. The DNA of humans which are different from one another is a unique blue print of life that only God can do. Even the scientist are amaze by how everything in the body works so perfectly. And not by a small matter that turn into a little fish that into a monkey that turn into an ape and wallah it was you..
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Uh, no. Scientists like myself understand evolution is an observable fact and leave supernatural nonsense out of our work.
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I'd never had that happen before. I tried to comment three hours ago, and ask.com told me, "You've commented a lot recently. Why don't you hold off for 30 min?" And it wouldn't let me comment. I'm not altogether sure it's going to let me nnnnnn
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ow.
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Kitten even your pastor richard hawkins admitted that humans DNA comes from a Higher Intelligence and did not evolve from a matter that on and on turn into an ape the great ancestors of the atheisism. (Know I spelled it wrong)
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kunz, your quote mining is something I don't even think you realize you do. Sometimes, they quote scientists when they are summarizing their opponents' views. Sometimes, scientists are quoted after a ridiculous question is posited by a Creationist lunatic. And sometimes the quotes you read are outright Fox News lies.
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wickedpissah
kunz- The finest minds at NASA are working around the clock to try to decipher your last comment.
Hopefully they'll have a translation for us soon.
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No, I heard about this. Dawkins was quoted as saying, "extraterrestrial life could have seeded life on earth" or some such. What he was asked was, "What if aliens brought life to earth thereby shortening the amount of time necessary for evolution to take its course?" And his answer was something along the lines of, "Well IF extraterrestrials could have seeded life to earth, then THEY would have developed themselves through the slow process of natural selection...

I don't even think they see how disingenuous they're being.
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wickedpissah
Oh, I think the creationist christians know EXACTLY how disingenuous they're being.
Deep down they know they're wrong, but they're so committed to the fairy tale that to admit defeat now would be too embarassing for them.
So they just double-down on the crazy.
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Perhaps it's the profitability of the whole thing. But I am pretty sure those in leadership positions KNOW that lying is necessary, it's the FOLLOWERS I think who don't realize how disingenuous the LEADERS are being.
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I am a Catholic and I won't let you take away my faith.

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rustyboilerz
Fight the good fight. We all need more like you!
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No one can take away your faith. If you study enough, and learn enough about the physical world, your beliefs just kind of evaporate all on their lonesome.
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Thank you !
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Nobody will take away anything
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Well I know that the truth is obvious dude will be commenting on this and I won't let him steal me away from God.
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No one said anything about taking away anyone's beliefs. He was simply remarking on the growing number of atheists.
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wickedpissah
Hidden - Who's trying to "take away your faith"?
Who's trying to "steal you away from god"?
You're free to believe whatever you want. No one is stopping you.
All we atheists want is to be accorded that same respect.
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You should listen to TIO. You should listen to smart people. Smart people who aren't trying to con you out of 10% of your pre-tax income. Not that any religious people actually give that much...
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I am sure that he is wise but I choose to believe what I believe in.
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Believe! Please feel free. Just don't turn your back on science and research.
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I don't hate Athiests I just don't want to go down that road.
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wickedpissah
Hidden - no one is forcing you to go down that road. More importantly, no one is chiding you with thinly-veiled threats for not going down that road.
All we atheists ask is for religious people to respect our right to not be religious without constantly berating us with threats of "damnation" for not believing in their religion.
I think that's only fair.
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Okay I see where your at. I apologize I was just worried that since it has beating out Mormons you guys may try to do something to the Christians and the Catholics . Like try to bring us into your religion and even if you were to kill me then so be it. I don't mean to be rude.
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Well that went south fast.
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lol
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Wow kids these days seriously need learn some basics.
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When you say science.. I wonder if you know what is science. God is the author of science and God is the Master of science. Look around you the trees the flowers and everything nature was made from Him.

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I am just standing up for what I believe in.
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Even your apes ancestors were made by Him
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I am just scared of Truth is Obvious I know that he will comment on this any time now.
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lmao. Truth is obvious worries you?
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Well kinda I mean have u seen his profile ?
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You realize it's offensive to suggest that just because we now outnumber Mormons that we're "doing something" to them or going to "do something" to other Christians. What exactly do you think we're doing?

Also- atheism isn't a religion. We have no common beliefs or philosophies. You really don't much know what atheism is do you?
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@ hidden - yes I looked after you said that. It was a lot of ramblings. lmao he is probably some 15 year old wanna be or an adult who likes to scare kids. He is nothing to worry about.
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@ The kitten - well there are common beliefs and philosophies among atheists but I don't think it is religious
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Thanks dawnbright like I'm not actually scared of him I would face him any day it's just the things that he says.
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No there aren't. The only thing any two atheists have in common is the LACK of a single belief- the belief in gods. It is just the opposite of theism, belief in one or more gods.

Anything else is individual to the atheist. Some if us are naturalists, some believe in the supernatural. Some of us are irreligious, some (like Truth who is a Buddhist I believe) are religious (there are atheistic religions). Some believe in an afterlife, some don't. The only thing we share is lack of belief in gods.
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@ the kitty. I will have to think about what you said. I guess I was thinking that the common threads was the lack of god(s) was the universal belief and the idea that you cease to exist @ death. hmmm.
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@dawnbright, because you are grammatically challenged and easily frightened is no reason to insult me or my intelligence nor does it give you an excuse to suggest I am a terror. Your rude comments are dually noted and I think its ironic you have bright in your name. Before you say you thinks its ironic I have truth in your name, consider that bright individuals don't make assumptions about people they don't know openly- it removes all doubt of your arrogance and crass nature.
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my*
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The hidden shadow- if dawn was right about anything- and explicitly only one thing in this thread, it's that I shouldn't worry you. I'm actually a real nice guy if you don't act like a total jerk *cough* *dawnbright.*
I use big words and speak poetically but its mostly a defense mechanism for the constant stream of senseless hate zealots that attack me on a regular basis *cough* *dawnbright*
You will only have any reason to fear me if you give me one. I worship justice, compassion and truth and only crimes I recognize are those that violate one of those.
As for your original answer. I don't want to steal you from god haha I'd only encourage you to think rationally and avoid letting your religion or god obliterate your sense of reasoning, critical thinking and compassion *cough* *dawnbright*
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@truth - I just read your comments and I am glad you can use big words. I am sure that helps you feel good about your intellegence. Research shows that most people read and understand at a 7th grade level. As for speaking poetically, no, no you do not. You ramble and throw tantrums like a 3 year old. You *worship" justice,compassion and truth? Do you ever read your own ramblings? If you don't want constant streams of hate coming at you then don't be such a rambling nonsensical fool. While you did not impress me you did make me laugh out loud so Thanks for the entertainment. I hope we type again real soon!
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@truth - I have no idea what *cough* means? Enlighten me.
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Not to nitpick, but please don't comment on other people's level of intellect when you spelled "intelligence" wrong.

Also, why do you think someone would deserve hate for being rambling and nonsensical (not that I think Truth is, but the point remains)? From what I've seen here, Truth receives streams of hate for the same reason I do or many other irreligious folks do- because we're atheists, and anti-atheism seems to be one of the last acceptable prejudices in America.
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@kitty - omg seriously? Look I have never been hateful towards any atheist. ABOUT being an atheist. I have never been or shown hate towards any one on here. You jump to conclusions and because of some unfounded reason you assume quite alot of things. This is not the first time you have gotten in an uproar over one of my comments. If you actually took the time to read what was written ...You know it is actually not that big of a deal to me. Don't like what I comment on or that i might have a typo? don't really think it matters.
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@kitty - truth be obvious can answer or not for his self.
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I didn't mean to make this an argument I just put down an answer.
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oh it is ok. I am not having an argument with anybody. Just reading other speeches and having a good time. :}
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Alright I just don't wanna offend anyone but I love God and He is the one that I choose to follow.
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good choice.
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Considering your entire last post was intended to insult Truth, to claim you've never shown hate is a stretch. You claimed he wouldn't get hate if he wasn't a "rambling nonsensical fool"- implying he deserves what he gets.

You apparently believe calling others names is loving. Interesting.

And FYI- "a lot" is two words.
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bentheredunthat

Not surprised. Mormons have traditionally been a fairly small group compared to other faiths, or lack-of-faithers, lol. Either way, funny thing about atheists - they say they don't believe in God, yet when bad things happen they sarcastically blame God & argue to the end how awful he is. (Not you specifically, Truth. It's just an odd quirk I noticed recently.) When things go bad, it would be good to hear people blame Satan as much as they blame God. If you believe, you understand that the battle between good & evil is constant & equal in power. And why Christians & others require their followers stay vigilant.

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You wouldn't see anyone who has been atheist for longer than a month reverting back just to blame invisible deities.
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We don't blame your god, we just point out that if an all-loving god existed, he wouldn't allow r@pe, murder, torture, abuse, sorrow, pain, or cruelty.
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No, we don't blame things we don't believe in. Where do you get this nonsense?
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No shock -- this is what they hear from their pastor every week.
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wickedpissah
We atheists don't blame your god for bad things that happen. That would be like blaming Darth Vader for cutting off Luke's hand. They're fictional characters.
But- we do, and will continue to, blame religious people for the bad things that religious people do.
There's a big difference there. A big difference.
Plase don't confuse the two.
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Equal in power? I thought God was omnipotent... or does he just not want to do away with evil? Actually that reminds me of something.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus
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"They all know the knockdown arguments as well as we do; yet still they believe. We're not going to convince them." -Sam Harris
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bentheredunthat
Sorry guys, & gals - I should not have implied "all atheists". Point taken - you are correct. But I swear - I have gotten into arguments with people who claim to be aethists - then bombard me with all the reasons why - "God is cruel, God allows pain & misery, etc." It makes no sense to me either. How can you blame what you claim to not believe in? (That was my point, that's all. Sorry - no offense intended.)
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bentheredunthat
(By the way, I'm not a "them". I'm open to all thoughts & beliefs. And I don't really care what people believe as long as they are happy & OK in their lives. There is no right or wrong religion to me. All religions & ideas can offer wise thoughts.)
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They are trying to show you the gaps in logic that are in your claim. They aren't suddenly believing again. I use the Noah's ark story as my first argument against Christianity because the story has a ton of illogical areas that can be pointed out.
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bentheredunthat
The Bible is full of bizarre & unrealistic stories, but back then they didn't know what we know today - science, geology, the world & universe, etc. The Bible is not so much about hard facts, I think, but more about parables to teach a lesson. And there are some grains of truth in many of the stories, as historians often find, But most people understand ancient people perceived & interpreted their world & the things that happened very differently from us today. Unfortunately there are those who refuse to moderate between black & white vs. the gray areas. Or no area at all. Whatever floats your boat, excuse the pun.
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But why would you believe the assertions of people who were largely uneducated nomads or farmers(or carpenters) from a couple thousand years ago? Wouldn't you want to base your reality on the summation of human knowledge in your own time period?
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bentheredunthat
I don't know that there is a time limit or specific historical timeframe re the most ideal or best lessons in kindness & love (eg. Jesus's teachings) & the effects of cruelty & hatred toward each other - either by man's wrath against man, or God's wrath against man for misdeeds. (Or perceived misdeeds.) Today we still condemn events like the Spaniards slaying native people, African slavery, the Holocaust & genocide, & the recent plague of AIDS & the mass murders of Sept.11. These events may have happened years ago but the horror & concern will always be relevant & have some teaching place in history long after we're dead. The final story may be watered down centuries from now, & sound absurd - but would you want future people to laugh these events off as silly, irrelevant fiction? To teach their children it was all total nonsense & make believe? Hopefully not.
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bentheredunthat
(Also, I wouldn't be so quick to write off the intelligence & ideas of ancient nomads & farmers. They did some amazing things considering how little they knew vs. what we know today, & the tools they had to do it with. Most of us probably wouldn't be here now without their knowledge & some restraint. It's good that a few decided to educate themselves & strive for more. And not clobber ALL of their neighbors over the head with clubs. That takes some consideration & kindness. Today it seems we're headed back in the opposite direction at times.)
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I agree that there can be wisdom from all ages. I should have specified that I was referring to knowledge of supernatural entities. I just used a quote from Epicurus as an argument against somebody and it seemed very wise to me. And some of the feats are amazing. The pyramids are incredible and the Great Wall of China(although there was a lot of forced labor and killing involved in both).
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bentheredunthat
Epicurus? That ancient old nomad, lol? :) (I hear he was good cook. They named a website after him.) All these years later & we're still wondering about the same things he did. Maybe this is the purpose of moral religio?. We just can't keep ourselves in line, even centuries later, & we know it. Without some rules & a play book we know we'll wipe ourselves out if we allow it? IDK...
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Speak for yourself. Atheists manage to be moral without religion.
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I think that people are naturally scared of not having answers for everything. This fear leads them to make stories that would explain everything they don't know. The funny thing now is we are figuring these things out with modern science, and a divide between the religious and science based people has spawned.
That's how I see it anyways.
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Kilgore is close. The real issue is that science doesn't offer stories or narratives, it offers facts and numbers. We evolved to LOOOOOOVE a good story, we like them to have good intros, fascinating plots and a great conclusion that wraps everything up neatly and succinctly. The knowledge gained from scientific inquiry just can't be packaged this way.
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lol.. Moral comes from religion not from the ape
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God is the author of science and God is the original scientist. Just look around.. All of nature is Gods handiwork. Even the apes
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So, Kunz, at what point as we were evolving into modern day humans was a soul injected into us?
Would a loving god kill everything on the planet because something he designed didn't work the way he wanted?
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He blamed us for His mistake.
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Exactly! The game was rigged, the dice loaded, the events defined.
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There was no evolving only a Creator of heaven and the earth. Look around the globe all the ancient city that was built. Even the most sophisticated technology tools cannot even comprehend. And to say your ancestors the apes build them..??
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Nobody said apes built them. Evolution states that all life is related. Our closest relative is the Chimpanzee. We weren't Chimpanzees, but we both share a common ancestor.
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Actually god came from the ape, the ape is just confused on which came first. Their is no author of science- its a method. No evidence to back your claims sufficiently demonstrates your inability to grapple with reality on equal footing and clearly exposes the delusions you prop onto a pedestal as holy.
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Even your pastor richard hawkins admitted that human DNA was made by a Higher Intelligence and not from a matter that in zillions of years turn into your ancestors the great apes of atheist
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wickedpissah
kunz - your trolling is doing a great disservice to your cause
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Richard Dawkins admitted no such thing.
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lol.. I'm watching the interview as we speak
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He's not my pastor- or god- or anything and his statements as as irrelavant as yours if they disagree with science.
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They don't- these moron creationists don't realize that when he said that the idea that aliens seeded life on Earth has just as much evidence as that a god created it, he was saying both ideas have no evidence and are therefore silly to believe.
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bentheredunthat
Skep, what kind of evidence are you looking for, personally? What would it take to convince you that there is something out there surprisingly greater than us & science? Just curious.
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Evidence that is objective, verifiable, and explainable as NOTHING but your god. Anything else would be too subject to bias or wishful thinking.

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bentheredunthat
Like what? Can you give an example?
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wickedpissah
benther - pray to yout god and tell him to turn me into a bunny rabbit.
right now.
If I magically turn into a bunny rabbit within the next 10 minutes, then I will gladly accept the truth of your diety, and I will worship him as such.
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bentheredunthat
(If you have the time & inclination, print out & read this transcript from pilot Alfred Haine's FAA presentation re. his experience during & after the crash of flight 232, a jetliner crash, Sioux City, Iowa 1989. Don't worry, it's not about religion & I'm not one of those "conversion people". I just like to debate & hear other's viewpoints. But his story does shed a fascinating light on how science & something "else" (?) combined that day to create an outcome that left many challenging faith vs. coincidence. Maybe one day science will very ironically open the door for those who have doubts & disbeliefs about some great things going on in the universe. Have a great day ahead.
http://www.clear-prop.org/aviation/haynes.html
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wickedpissah
Why are you changing the subject?
You asked a direct question: What would it take to convince an atheist.
I gave you one specific criteria: turn me into a bunny rabbit.
If your god is real, as you claim, and if he has the power to create this entire universe in just 6 days, as you claim, then surely 10 minutes should be more than enough time for this one simple task.
Stop changing the subject.
Bunny rabbit.
Now.
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wickedpissah
Been 20 minutes.
No bunny rabbit.
Failure.
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bentheredunthat
Lol... OK - POOF! You're now a rabbit. You can thank me this Easter & leave me a basket. :)
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Personal testimony is not evidence. It is far too subject to bias and mental tricks.

The argument from Ignorance fallacy is also not evidence- that you don't understand something does not make the answer your specific all-powerful deity.
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I also fail to see how your link relates at all.
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wickedpissah
Sorry.
No bunny = no god.
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bentheredunthat
(Actually, the pilot is a skeptic too. He called the dozen things that converged that day "luck" - but also wondered himself about whether or not something more may have played a part. Many did. His speech is all about hard facts, science & the technica & safety issues that happened that day. And not just some crazy testimony. Regardless, it's a fascinating story, no matter what you believe. There used to be a video on Wikipedia showing the crash occurring. (Can't find it anymore.) It's a helluva thing to see.)
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bentheredunthat
(It's very relevant. If you read it, you might possibly understand a little bit why so many people in the world believe & wonder about life's mysteries & why things happen the way they do. Whether you agree or not, or it be science or a higher power at work. That's what makes the argument so much fun to debate. Hopefully, respectfully.)
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I simply fail to see how that story has anything to do with the existence of gods. Particularly since theists love to claim instances like that are "miracles" while simultaneously ignoring all those who died, that it occurred in the first place, that the lucky incidences were all perfectly natural, and that hundreds of other planes crash killing everyone aboard.
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Again, this is the Argument from Ignorance fallacy- just because you don't understand something is no reason to assume the supernatural must be responsible. It's primitive thinking- early man doesn't know how lightning works, assumes it's the work of angry gods.
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bentheredunthat
Because, maybe, when people think of "Gods", they picture someone like Zeus sitting on a throne, waving a magic wand, (or lightning bolt) making things happen - or not happen. Difficult to swallow, agree, & probably very incorrect. "God" for many is simply a label to describe what they don't understand, true. But many also suspect "God" is an energy that sometimes affects events & our existence in a way that we don't quite understand yet, as well. I guess it's about keeping an open mind, that's all. Why people die so horribly may or may not be in God's power. Why people survive against the odds - same thing. I just don't know. We do a lot of this stuff to ourselves. Then blame God (or Satan) to escape punishment. We also happily thank God when things go right, when we may have simply done a good job. I don't disagree with your questions & comments, I agree - logic should override faith, but yet many people continue to need faith to stay sane for a reason. Maybe they've personally experienced something amazing that keeps them believing? Many do. I also agree that doubts are important too. It keeps people (like you) from rushing headlong into following the herd over a cliff under the wrong circumstances. (Religious fanaticism) You can have the last word if you like. I don't want to keep posting because it's annoying, the activity button flashing bugs people.) Again, have a good evening ahead.
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One thing that would make it more plausible for a god creating the universe in 6 days is if the Big Bang didn't have so much evidence. Also, the biological designs of animals and humans would all be perfectly efficient and not have any vestigial organs etc.etc.
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that is a great point kilgore. I never thought of the vestigial organs like that but if a god designed us it is senseless to give us useless organs.
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I know I missed all that, but I did want to say that when YECs quote Dawkins saying "Life on earth was seeded by extra-terrestrials", it's a horrible miscarriage of justice of a quote mined. The theologian he was having a discussion with was asking if life had been seeded by extraterrestrial means, if that would eliminate the need for evolutionary descent. Dawkins merely said that IF we had been seeded by extraterrestrials, then THOSE extraterrestrials would have evolved through their own natural selection.
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Meh. Most of us have no interest in organizing or anything.

Though I suppose it gives me some hope that with our ever growing numbers, there might come a time soon when we don't have to face as much prejudice and discrimination and hatred.

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And maybe the next generation of children can finally learn useful things!
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Novel you seem as excited about it as me haha
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Doesn't really matter to me, someone's beliefs don't have an affect on how I see that person

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It doesn't make me want to jump for joy, but it does make me feel better that more children will be able to grow up with the option to research a religion prior to accepting its doctrines, versus being scared to death into accepting it.

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good answer
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same :)
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Actually I thought it would be like the ewok celebration at the end of return of the jedi when they blew up the death star
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when I posted this question
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not really, but thats fun to think about.
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lmao, that would be awesome!!!
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Ikr. The lackluster responses kinda killed my fantasy but then again its a completely ridiculous fantasy. Somehow I think it will be like that one day- maybe at 50%.
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It will happen, sadly not in our lifetime. But I do believe it will be a swift "movement" once there is enough percentage.
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Ewok death star celebration.
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Hopefully that trend will be reflected in our secular law making.

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While its an interesting factoid, it doesn't feed any pent-up impulse to organize an anti-god jihad, so the believers can relax. Is it because atheism is increasing, or Mormons are jumping ship? I am encouraged that reason is more popular than a polygamist cult.

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When you put it like that it makes me a little sad XD
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TIO: I feel about it how I assume most atheists feel about it.
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It doesn't really matter to me.
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Atheists do not organize in anyway to rally non-belief.
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It is just a non-issue with most.

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dam, I was looking forward to a non-belief rally where we celebrated... not believing. o well
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@Truth: Actually, I think we are all meeting at Caluvox's bar where he said--and I have this in writing--the drinks are on him. See you there.
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I'm picking up CalTex on the way........TIO, where are you? You look little. Maybe I can carry you too.
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@ybp: I look forward to being whisked away in your talons of secularism.
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Fly me to cal's bar majestic eagle!
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CalTex is in Texas...on the way from here in Cali to Florida, where are you?
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Hey, ynp. I'm in Cali, too (ex-Texan). Hope you haven't already taken off. I'll be watching the friendly skies.
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Just north of cali, I'm in Oregon. You should be able to use the climate to achieve greater speeds.
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Don't care. So long as NO religious group (including atheists, who are technically a non-religious group) has the power to tell other people what religion to follow (or not follow) I do not care who outnumbers whom in the religious department.

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good answer
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I'm assuming most of these atheists are just coming out of the closet and there have been plenty. On the other hand, Utah is filled to the brim with Mormons. So, if there are more atheists than most of the state of Utah, then that's a pretty good difference. I can't wait until a lot of us are actually taken seriously.

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same, I'm sick of discrimination
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The numbers will keep rising and Jesus is coming soon!

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zombie apocalypse?
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be friendly please <3
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I just don't care.

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Suzie17

And? I heard there's more cats than all religious people combined. Scary!

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that's not scary! its cute :3
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Suzie17
Haha! Not if they hate people like me!!
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@Suzie: Are talking about cats or atheists?
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Suzie17
Seriously??
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Cats don't hate anything but mice ;)
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My feelings are that you're just trying to start an argument

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Why? I didn't ask only theists. This question was for everyone. If you suddenly feel the urge to argue with me that's not my problem nor was it my intention. Get some social skills.
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Hello.
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Hi
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Eh... Not too major... Ask how i feel again when there are no more theists left..... (it's bound to happen someday)...

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Not really.
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Ya, stupidity has been fading since fire.
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I don't really have feelings on it. I judge people by why they say and do. Not what they believe.

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same. I was just motivated for our next generations.
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Yeah. I guess more ANYTHING is better than more mormans :P JK.
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lmao
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YAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! More people like me!!!! Less people to tell me I'll burn in Hell!!!!! There is hope for a future without prejudice and hatred due to people's beliefs!!!

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I'm stoked too! XD
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Christianity had a 400 year head start on Islam. If the former is finally waning, I fear we may need an additional 400 years to wait out the zealotry in the latter.
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Perhaps you are right novel. It may also be that the blanket that is weeding out superstition from Christianity will facilitate a swift removal of Islam as well but only time will tell if the program is so adaptable. Islam is more resilient than Christianity so I think it may be a greater challenge myself.
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Prosperity would definitely help.
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Bible prophecy - and they shall turn away their ears from the truth.For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy.This only proves that God's words are true.

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Only to the already deluded.
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wickedpissah
Only sheep need a shepherd.
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Deb, you sound like that one actress who always plays the religious nut--well, in one of her roles anyway! Beth Grant? Heard of her? In Donnie Darko she doubted Rose's commitment to Sparkle Motion!!
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Wow novel that is spot on. Do you think deb is doing it on purpose?
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I think it's hard to live in a bubble where all you hear is how vital it is to uphold what you've heard in the bubble.
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Yes, and I would support her in her struggle if I didn't think it were doing some damage. Kinda like the alcoholic that everyone loves and you don't want to take his drink away because, even though he is making a fool of himself, you know he kind of likes the attention and taking his drink away would just upset him, deep down- you know he's better off without it.
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if you are an atheist then idc you are my friend. If you believe in GOD like i do then idc you still my friend. No matter what i am still human being like you are<3

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You are my friend then.
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freinds till the end my brother!
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