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LeahChristine

Have your read the entire Bible?

Whether you are atheist or consider yourself Christian, in order to make judgements about the book you should read it through. What do you think?

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Yes, and the Torah, and the Qur'an. I'm an atheist, but I enjoy studying all human philosophies.

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Do you know the Jewish scriptures are called The "Tanakh" the Torah is only the books of the law, 5 in all. The Tanakh is the same as the old Testament of the christian Bible.
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Yes, I've also read the Talmud, Vedas, Pyramid texts, and attempted the Tipitaka but decided War and Peace would be a much quicker read.
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Buttonz_again

Nope.

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I have. Bit by bit, taking time to think about what I read. And I still go back now and then to check something, when someone tells me "the Bible says . . . " and what they quote doesn't ring true.

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I have not read it but I probably should . Good question and good way of asking it (:

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You must be Christian.
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Nope I'm not anything at the moment
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Yea

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I'm working on it!

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JamesKaeberle

Yes!

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Every time you read it you find something new because different verses speak to your life each time. in January, read a proverb a day and highlight what stands out to you in one color. in february, do it again, but in a different color. so on and so forth. at the end of the year, when Proverbs is covered in 12 different colors, you have a visible conversation between you and God.

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Very good advice!
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i am so gonna do that now!
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I've read it through multiple times. :)

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Not yet

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yep....the devil did it

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Spoiler alert!
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No not completely.

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That's way too big to read. I've made my judgement on the verses and stories I have read.

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LeahChristine
I have read it through many times and so have others. You can't make judgements on scriptures by themselves.
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who r u to judge anyways?
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Yes, I can. For example, the bible says being homosexual is wrong. I do not need to read the whole thing to understand the bible said it was wrong.
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LeahChristine
I agree that you can make some simple judgements but you have to read the whole thing to learn God's purpose and to decide whether to accept or reject doctrines taught by man.
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@giggles
I just choose to not follow it, based on what I know.
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@Leah
I'm 99% sure I could read it over and over and my judgement not change. Some of the psalms are comforting, but that's about it. Just my opinion. I really don't want to argue about this, my day was going so well. Have a nice day/night/evening :)
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LeahChristine
Peace to you as well.
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I've read the majority of it. Christians say the Bible is the sword of god, it seems like it stabs Christianity every time I read it.

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how does it stab christianity?
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The more you read the bible the more ridiculous Christianity sounds.
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It made me an atheist.
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@Skeptikitten Thank you, at least you understood my answer.
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No I am not very religious

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No, but I know enough about it. Just like I know enough about my body and pain tolerance to know I would dislike having a gunshot wound without having actually been shot. Are you saying you would need to be shot with a gun to know you wouldn't like it?

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LeahChristine
That is a false analogy and poor comparison.
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dont knock it til ya try it! i agree with leah.
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Did you guys read the entire Vedas before discarding Hinduism? How about the Qur'an? Or are you being hypocrites?
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I think it's a decent analogy. You don't have to know everything about something to know whether you'll like it or not. Plus I'm certain there's nothing in the Bible saying that reading it is a prerequisite to be saved. And I'm not sure the Bible is good appropriate reading material for anyone under 13. There's a lot of war, gore, and sex in there.
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Don't forget the intolerance, prejudice, and genocide.
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I'm not sure I necessarily blame the Bible for that. That seems to be more of an inherent quality in people. I see religion as more of a tool like a knife, it all depends on who and how it's used.
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LeahChristine
Skepikitten-I know that Muslims believe in Hellfire so I already know not to accept their religion, just based on that. I don't have to read the Koran.

I know some about the apocrypha and book of Mormon and reject those books.

I know a lot of the Bible and have proven to myself that it is accurate and truthful. Therefore, I don't have to read every holy book.
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Leah... That's why people don't need to read the entire bible to know its cr@?
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The bible started as Hebrew tribalistic propaganda in the second, third maybe fourth century B.C.
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But you think people should have to read the entire bible before discarding it? I can just read Genesis alone and tell you it's nonsense.

You seem to engage in the Special Pleading fallacy- you can discard all other religions without properly studying them yet no one is allowed to discard your for the same reasons.
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LeahChristine
Skepti-People are "allowed" to discard the Bible if they so choose. I don't think they should because it has proven itself. The Bible doesn't support the idea that any other book is accurate. Also, I look at the behavior of Muslims and see that they go to war and I reject that.
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I'm going to finish the whole bible. Because my atheist best friend keeps on questioning things in the bible

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Stand strong
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Well we're best friends and we don't really fight he only talk about it with other people
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good for u! i hope u can bring him around sometime! good luck
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Haha thanks I might make him join ask :D
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If you study the bible and it's history thoroughly you'll become atheist like your friend and me.
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Yes! It's unnecessarily long. They should've just skipped around to the interesting parts and put it within 3-5 chapters.

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Gotta like that idea, Devine Wind. It's a bit too windy in parts.
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Thank you! Someone else finally sees it!
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I've read it all many many times. Studied it and religious history thoroughly which is why I'm atheist.

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Were you an atheist before or after? Or both...?

Reading the Bible all the way through HAS to be bad for the mind...

It's worth giving up eternal life just not to have to read the darn thing!
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The occasional wisdom of Lao Tzu in his Tao Te Ching has been something worth chewing and digesting over the years.
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HahaLoL , I'd have to agree with you on that. I became an atheist as a result of my biblical studies.
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You don't have to read it all the way through to be able to make judgments about certain parts of it. Just as long as you've read the part that you're talking about. Anyway, yes I have. It took a couple years though because I never dedicate too much time to it at once because I don't want the bible taking up too much of my time.

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LeahChristine
It depends on what you are talking about. It is necessary to know the whole thing to know if some doctrines are true and to know the purpose of the Bible. Yeah, you can read Psalms and feel comforted by its words and be motivated to treat people well and so on, but to understand the purpose in life you must read the whole thing.
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true leah
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Purpose in life? No. What each person want to do in life is relative to them. You don't need psalm or the bible at all to understand your "purpose" in life.
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LeahChristine
We don't get to decide "our" purpose in life or the Bible's ultimate purpose. Not in the sense I was saying. Yeah, we get to decide what job we will work at and if we will marry, etc. but the message of the Bible is decided on by God.
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All the way through? Definitely! And I've read most of it a number of times.
I've gotta admit that it gets a bit boring in the begats.
Maybe Divine Wind has a point: it could do with a good edit.

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It would be interesting to see how a good modern writer with an understanding of current religious and cultural ideals would edit/compose a new edition.
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They lost me entirely in Revelations, D. I wasn't about to genuflect anyway, but Geez, what rubbish.
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I've often wondered the same thing. A modern publisher wouldn't be able to market it in any genre I can think of without it's own inherent demographic to ensure sales.

As fiction, mythology, history, folk lore or even as a coherent theology, the Bible simply doesn't stack up.

If God was looking for a publisher in this century he'd need a complete re-write to remove the contradictions and anomalies.

It's a well-known concept that a reader enters into a kind of contract with the author to suspend disbelief for the duration of the novel, but if the writer steps outside the parameters that have been set, the contract is void and the reader will probably stop reading. God has overstepped that line too many times for the Bible to be a viable proposition.
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I was thinking the bible could be used as a rough draft/outline for a religious fantasy novel of sorts that incorporates modern thinking and culture.
Not that I'll waste my time with it.
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It's an idea but you'd need to be pretty dedicated to finish the job.
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The begat, begat, part was nonsense, and why would a super natural, all knowing, all seeing entity even include it? seems a bit Hebrewcentric to me :-/
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The begats are an attempt to establish the Hebrews in a direct lineage with gods creation of humans and a favored divine status with god.
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Exactly Raven. Just another example of the hogwash that is the bible, a creator of the universe would not have singled out a portion of its creation.
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@Cal: It couldn't be other than Hebrewcentric. After all, it's a conglomeration of Hebrew history, folk lore and mythology. But I wouldn't throw it away as hogwash. It's gotta be at least as useful as the folk lore and mythology of other people and this one, because it was preserved by a long-term religion, has managed to remain more-or-less intact.
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Dodgy my point was the idea that the bible is a perfect work of truth and has no errors in the eyes of those who believe. However issues, such as the ethnocentric nature of it, is just another glaring example of its origin being man made.
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Sorry, of course you're right. I missed your point.
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I would classify it as not very useful as folk literature because of the original purpose of its existence being Hebrew tribal propaganda put together from plagiarized writings of more advanced societies in the area with overwhelming evidence proving a majority of biblical "events" never occurred. I would rank the bible just under Mein Kampf as valuable folk literature.
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LOL, I'm sure our religious friends will be overjoyed at that assessment.
Noveltman plut up a rather interesting link this morning. It sounds plausible, certainly a lot of it will be factual, but I'd want to watch it again a couple more times before making a judgment. You might enjoy this if you haven't seen it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1FdtpH8lSI
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By the way, Mein Kampf is a best seller throughout the Muslim middle east.
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I'll watch the video. Thanks.
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That was an excellent video, I heard many of the stories individually but I had never seen it put in such a concise way. It makes a lot of sense.
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I'll pass that on to Nov when I'm talking to him.

I didn't know about Mein Kampf and the Middle East but when you consider the conspiracy between Hitler and the Mufti of Jerusalem to murder Israeli Jews, it shoiuldn't be surprising.
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not yet but im working on it, slowly and surely!

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LeahChristine
A good goal.
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Read it through years ago, I also have read the Quran, Midrash, some excerpts of the Talmud, and teachings of Confucius, among others. In addition to further studies of World History, I became secure in my Atheist views.

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As an atheist I have read it cover to cover, I have read a few portions of the gnostic books, as well as a little of the Quran.

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I tried.... Slate had it serialized a couple of years ago. It's so dreary! I just couldn't get the plot, I'm afraid...

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They should have had Charlton Heston or Morgan Freeman narrating it .........
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Lmao!! So true :)
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Heston's a bit over the top but Morgan Freeman would be a good choice. If there's ever a movie about a black god he should get the lead role.
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Dang! I didn't know about that.
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You may like the movie. It wasn't horrible. :0)
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0000EM6QS
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Charlton Heston Reads the Old Testament: The Five Books of Moses,
Charlton Heston
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I checked that out. I'm sure he did a very professional job on it, Raven.
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Yep- it's a huge part of the reason I'm no longer Christian. Recent research also shows that while 60% of American atheists have read the entire bible, only 10% of Christians who attend church regularly (so around 1-3% of total Christians) have read the whole thing.

Also- have you read the entire Vedas before discarding Hinduism? The Voluspa before discarding Asatru? How about the Qur'an? If you discarded any other religion without reading its entire texts, that would make you a hypocrite.

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LeahChristine
I have read the entire Bible many times. Jehovah's Witnesses don't fall within the small percentages that have read the Bible. Atheists and Mormons were knowledgeable according to that poll done (was it in USA TODAY?) but Jehovah's Witnesses weren't factored into that because were are very well read Biblically.

I couldn't read every religious book out there. I have found that there is enough evidence to support the Bible and also many people from other backgrounds (who were Muslim, Buddhist, etc.) have read and rejected those books. I have read about the apocrypha and book of Mormon and have read portions. I haven't read the Koran but know that they teach Hellfire so know to reject that.
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Yes, they teach hellfire, but the Christian god teaches eternal damnation. In reality, it's both the same thing. And there's not really enough evidence to support the Bible.
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LeahChristine
I want to correct something. I worded something wrong. I said that "JWs don't fall within the small percentages that have read the Bible." I meant to say "that haven't read the Bible." We are very well read.

PassageOne-The Bible does not teach Hellfire. Fire is only used symbolically in the Bible. It symbolizes eternal destruction.

There is tons of evidence to support the Bible. Historical, scientific, etc.
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Actually, you're wrong about that one, too. There is no evidence. So called historical evidence? No, not at all. In fact, what we think of historical evidence is more of the Catholic church. We used to be a catholic nation and so all of our findings were influenced by the catholic church. It's still that way today, although we're slowly getting out of the grasp of the catcholic church. And please give me your so called evidence.
Also, you said that you can't make a judgment about a book if you haven't read it through. So what point does it make if they teach hellfire? Even the JW's teach things that the Bible doesn't make a claim with. If you haven't read the Koran, then you can't make a judgment about it.
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Interesting that you suggest others should need to read the entire bible before discarding it but you don't do the same for other religions. Has it occurred to you that millions have read enough to know it's untrue and stopped bothering- just as you said you did for other religions? Why should your particular religion deserve more contemplation than the hundreds of others on Earth?

And frankly, the bible is ludicrously inaccurate or impossible historically, scientifically absurd, contradictory, and morally questionable- it's why millions discard it.
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A thorough study of it and religion is why I'm atheist.
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Israel Finkelstein, chairman of the Archaeology Department at Tel Aviv University, with archaeology historian Neil Asher Silberman, has just published a book called "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Text."
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"The Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land [of Canaan] in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the twelve tribes of Israel.
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Rameses III overran Canaan and conquered it between 1280 and 1260 B.C. The Egyptian records give a list of all the tribes inhabiting it. The children of Israel-- the Hebrews--
WE'RE NOT THERE.
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Not until 332 B.C. do the Jews appear upon the stage of history, and then only as the submissive vassals of a Grecian king."
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The famous battle of Jericho, with which the Israelites supposedly launched this campaign of conquest after wandering for decades in the desert, has been likewise debunked: The city of Jericho didn't exist at that time and had no walls to come tumbling down. These assertions are all pretty much accepted by mainstream archaeologists.
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http://freethought.mbdojo.com/archeology.html
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Leah... Where'd ya go? T
he conversation was just getting started.
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The conversation
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LeahChristine
Critics scoffed at the Bible when it made mention in Leviticus of the hare chewing its cud. It turns out that they do chew their cud. The Bible refers to the "circle of the earth" and that doesn't mean a flat circle. Some Bibles say "sphere." This is at a time when most people thought it was flat. The Bible referred to Nabonidus as a ruler of Babylon, I think and this was scoffed at because there was never any historical mention of him, plus Belshazzar was known to be ruler at the time. Later something turned up mentioning him and it was discovered that he was co-regent. All sorts of relics and things have turned up that support it. In some cases, some nations don't mention some things that the Bible records, but that is most likely because they don't record a lot of the unflattering things about their nation's history, like losing in a war. I know Egypt suppressed some unflattering stuff.

The Bible is just the opposite. It has great candor about unflattering stuff. David recorded his mistakes and he made some doozies. He committed adultery and had the woman's husband killed. Still he recorded it.

The Bible is harmonious. It has the same theme from start to finish. The outworking of God's purpose and the kingdom seed. It was written over 1,600 years by 40 authors and it contains 66 books. Still it is consistent. Don't even try to tell me ot contradicts itself. The contradictions can be cleared up.
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No they can't. Not one contradiction can be cleared up. It can be twisted by Christians to make it say what you want it to say, but it can't be cleared up. For example, in the Bible it says none who don't believe in god do good. We know this is wrong because there are plenty who don't believe in good and yet do good by even the Bible's definition. Another example is that the Bible says from dust we were made from dust we will return. Adam was made from dust and we know men return to dust. But women return to being ribs? No, not at all, that's not possible. You see, even twisting the Bible to say what you want it to say still can't prove the laws in the Bible don't contradict true nature itself. And I'm pretty sure all these so called discoveries were done by Christians. Honestly, I've never found any historian positively claim anything in the Bible is actually true. In fact, you must be getting a lot of this from apologetics press, which if you are I must say I feel really bad for you.
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The bible is rife with utter nonsense.

Since you seem to claim scientific illumination how about these doozies: light was created before the SOURCE of light, bats are birds, insects have four legs, the Earth has corners and the entirety can be seen from a mountaintop, it is fixed in the sky, the sun revolves around us, demons cause disease, leprosy can be cured by spraying animal blood around, plants were created before the sun, the entire population of humans came from a single mating pair, there was a global flood...all of these and hundreds like them are demonstrably false.

The major events of the bible are not corroborated by a shred of historical evidence, and many outright disproven. Exodus, for example; the Hebrew people were never in Egypt en masse, and the Egyptians didn't even hold slaves until Greek rule many centuries later.

And you have to have SERIOUS confirmation bias to claim no contradictions. Just a couple examples:
Joseph's lineage was listed in two places in the bible, Luke and Matthew. The only ancestor in common was David. They couldn't even agree on who Joseph's father was.
Luke and Matthew differ by nearly a decade in Jesus' birth. One claims it was during the reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4BCE. The other says it was during the census of Quirinius- this wasn't until 6CE.


Of course there's still the hypocrisy of you claiming we all should have to read the entire bible before discarding it when you clearly don't practice what you preach, since you toss out other religions without ever reading their scriptures. Your religion is not special- you provide no evidence for your grand claims and an objective reading of your scriptures whether in part or in whole reveals the massive problems in the work.
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LeahChristine
Skepti-A lot of examples you have given, I have already dealt with from others and know the answers to. For one, the word for bat really means "night bird" and it just meant a creature that flew at night. It just got classified with birds because it flew. Even in the English language we have similar examples. Prarie dogs aren't dogs. Other ones you have mentioned have explanations too.
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LeahChristine
Passage One-It would be good if you would include the scriptures instead of just saying what it says. But as for women coming from rib, you know what that means. Adam is from dust, therefore woman is indirectly from dust.
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Leah..., you never addressed any of the points confirmed by archeological evidence as stated by the chairman of the archeology department of Tel Aviv University.
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LeahChristine
Raven-Who is Israel Finkelstein that I should look up to him. Anyway, I didn't research his claims so how can I respond to them. There are a lot of people that think they are experts and make claims. But I don't have any special attachment to Israel Finkelstein. There are plenty of "experts" and they all contradict each other.

I do know that Egypt and the pharoah's tamper with recording history to erase events that made them look bad.
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Do you imagine that the head of the archeological department of Tel Aviv University hadn't already considered that before issuing his statements. A broad range of evidence support his conclusions.
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Ah, apologetics. If there's no evidence, that means there was a conspiracy.

FYI, you still haven't addressed any of the egregious errors such as the claim that the sun revolves around us. You simply try to rationalize these errors by saying "we'll they REALLY meant this...."
Sorry kiddo, but if that's what they really meant they would have said it.

There's also of course the most glaring problem with the bible's claims- that there is not a shred of contemporary historical evidence for Jesus' existence at all.
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@leah: Like I said, I actually know the Bible. It is in Genesis 3:19 that says from dust we are from dust we will return. And leah, making the argument that woman is indirectly made from dust does not still prove anything. It still remains that women do not turn into ribs when their bodies decompose. Also, the verse that says no one who believes in god does good comes from the verse Psalm 14:1. Seriously, many errors have occurred in the Bible and rather than answering these errors you twist them to say what you want them to say.
Skepti: You are right. There is no shred of contemporary historical evidence of Jesus' existence. In order for there to be any, the body itself would have to undergo tests and all kinds of experiments to even be considered a human body. As the Bible itself says that Jesus resurrected, this means there is no body. There can't be a body. So if Leah does try to make the claim that there is evidence of Jesus' existence beyond the Bible, then she has already contradicted the resurrection of the Bible, making everything she argues after or before that invalid because supposedly everything in the Bible couldn't have happened were it for Jesus' resurrection.
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*were it not for Jesus' resurrection
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LeahChristine
Skepti-I have heard answers to most of the challenges you have already made but I don't have a photographic memory that I can call them up just like that. It would require research and I figure that I will just answer one or two like I did and not be exhaustive in my answer.
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You won't be able to answer them with anything but back pedaling and desperate attempts to reinvent what your texts say- I've heard it all.

Sorry but you don't simply get to claim "those can all be explained" but not provide a single argument and expect anyone to take you seriously in a debate. And quite frankly if you can't argue your own beliefs on your own you sure shouldn't be trying to get others to believe them.

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I've read most of the Bible. And it's the exact reason why I don't believe in it. If the bible was a true word of god, then it would not be concerned with what happens on the earth. It would tell more about the rest of the world. But as of course all men in those days knew about was the world itself and the sun and the moon, it only talks about the world. Also, you can't make any judgements on stuff like the Koran without reading them either.

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Yes I have, several times. I have now started reading it again, and each time it seems like you find something new.

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JamesKaeberle
Amen! The Word Of God is flesh and new everyday. God Bless!
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Yes.. A few times.. But I love listening to it in my cd's.

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JuggaloPride

No but I've read parts.

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Yes

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Yes. Twice.

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Not yet...

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The key is reading...with understanding. But yes, I read the entire Bible each year, and still learning. I also pray for understanding. If God the Spirit inspired it, He is the best source of understanding. God the Spirit is under no obligation to reveal truth to anyone who blasphemes Him. Christians have neglected the Bible, It has transformed my life, from the inside out, by regular hearing, reading, studying, memorizing and meditating on it.

btw, when I married my wife, I did not ask her if it was okay to keep dating any and all women I wanted. I knew I had found my life partner and friend. While I have studied other religions, it became quite clear I had found God when I found Jesus (actually He found me).

Religion requires a person to 'do this' or 'do that' in order to earn God's favor. Christ alone says 'it is done'. He alone claimed to be God in the flesh. He alone claimed to have authority to forgive the sins of others against God; His claim led Him to be crucified for it. Jesus alone stands above all religions by rising from the dead. That is why I worship and love Him, for He first loved me, just as I am.

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