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Is humanity so depraved, that we are incapable of choosing God?

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No one is incapable. Many are unwilling. There's a difference.

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Are they unwilling because their heart is hardened? Who will soften their heart?
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People are unwilling for different reasons. Some are hard-hearted. Some believe that God and the bible is myth and foolishness. Many are unwilling because they see the hypocrisy of those who call themselves believers. In the words of Ghandi "I really like your Christ. I do not like your Christians."
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Sorry, I missed the last line of that quote. He went on to say "Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
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That is very true. But the truth cannot be damaged by people like that. If there is a God in complete control, can he transforma hardened heart? Or an unbeliever's heart? Or does he wait for us to choose him? Obviously Ghandi did not know a true Christian. Only the imposters.
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But there are a lot of hypocrites and they do a lot of damage. In the scriptures Jesus never spoke harshly to the sinners, only to the self-righteous hypocrites. He knew the damage they were doing. It's no different today.
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probably 80% of the people on Earth have a God they choose. So.....

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If a person believes in God, is there anything that happens that is not part of his script? He already knows the outcome. Right?
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NO.. There is always hope.. God is there waiting for us...
Revelation 3:20-22 says ..........
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

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Do we seek God or has God already sought us? Like the good shepherd that finds his sheep?
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I believe He will offer salvation to everyone at least once. If they refuse .. They choose their own destiny.
Some believe in predestination but i fell we ALL get a chance. But He knows who will accept.
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Betty, that is a good answer. With the two ideas you propose, it reminds me of a quote from Charles Spurgeon:

These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.

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I love that
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That's a rather large generality! Just because some people don't share your belief, doesn't make them Godless!!! Tolerance of others is a blessing.

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I'm confused. Its a question. Nothing more.
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oarkergreatdane

Humanity is NOT depraved. We make our own choices since God gave us this right.

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Are we fallen from God? Or seperated from him? What is it that you believe?
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No, there's am ample number of the depraved who do choose a god.

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We definately believe we made the choice, But my question is more like,: My depravity had me blindfolded, and as I wondered around the wilderness towards my death, was it I who took the blindfold off or God? How is it that I am able to see? Are you a believer Torngren?
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What false drama. Wandering around the wilderness? Gimme a break. Chances are you've never seen wilderness.
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Definite showmanship, Z. But I'll grant him the benefit of the metaphorical doubt. No, I'm not a believer. And no, your god did not remove your blindfold. I read every question you post concerning these issues. . .it appears to me that your blindfold is still on.
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Check me out below Torngren.
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TheZ (like the name) I know the wilderness more than you know. But you would rather group me than understand me. Why do you group me when you do not know me. I have no show to put on. To people I don't know. It appears the wolves have hunted me down. And you mean, you just read my questions. I am not like you. I come on here once a week. Not every hour of every day. You answer a question that does not pertain to you. Why? You are just like your girl Skeptikitten. You are what you hate. Answer the questions that ask for your opinion. This one does not. I am the asker and you do not have the answer.
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*Sigh*, more theatrics.
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What do you offer this question? a sigh? Go away you fool!
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Lol, your question was foolish. My answer was appropriate. Deal with it.
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What is depravity Torngren?
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Quick go google it.
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No need, Ru. Everyone knows it's corruption of morality. You should have considered the definition before stamping it on everyone who doesn't share your particular belief structure. You really have no case, sorry.
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Are you telling me your morality is not corrupt? If that is true, than I know longer find you amusing but sad. You indeed have a false image of yourself.
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No, Ru, I think you understand all too well. I find everyones morality corrupt to some extent. Yours included. Your question is a shining display of it.
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Believe what you like, but to refer to others who believe differently as depraved is arrogant. You typify Christian ignorance. You are no more correct in such a statement than someone else would be for criticizing you for believing ancient folklore.

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Absolutely correct, Z. Runumbered consistently asks inflammatory, ignorant questions such as this one. Little does this type of christian know that they betray the few positive traits their religion claims to promote.
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Yep. It was time to call him on it.
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No doubt. He's been given many opportunities.
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Arrogant? Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life. Only through him shall one come before the Father. According to Him, you are in need of a Saviour because of your depravity. You do not feel you are depraved. Well Jesus says you are. My question is aimed at how depraved are we? You do not believe so, so why do you answer? Is it that hard for you to ignore a question, you do not agree with. You have stated you do not believe in unicorns....correct? Will you spend your life fighting their existance. Please help me understand you. Do you understand yourself?
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Take some time. Come up with something good. Your very best. I enjoy you.
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^^Lol, case in point, Z. Sorry, Ru, you hardly seem worth the effort. You're an extremist, and your debate skills revolve around circular reasoning. It's a lost cause to discuss matters with you.
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Best thing to do is just ignore this guy.... (Twirls fingers close to ear)...
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Ignore me! You have sought me! I find you three very amusing.
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Lol, then stick around, Ru. Maybe you'll learn something for once.
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I'll only stick around if you go and get Skeptikitten. The sheep is going to eat the wolves tonight!
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I'll stick by my original point, Renum, you've only reinforced it. Your blindness is amusing.
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Lol, you have an incredibly unhealthy infatuation with Skeptikitten. Even some of your questions are directed specifically toward her. Don't you find that embarrassing?
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Amusing, and disturbing, Z.
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Not at all embarrassing. She belittles and mocks my brothers and sisters. She insults my Lord God. And I am only as blind as God allows me to be. We are all works in progress.
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Well, it's good you don't find it embarrassing, lol. Again, it serves as a testament to the arrogance Z described.
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Why must you stand with your friend? Are you afraid to stand alone. Do you need Z's high five to make you feel like your point is valid. It is valid because it came from your own mind. Do you need Skeptikitten, your master, to validate your thoughts. You are weak. And what's embarassing is I know you know this. And yet you keep challenging me. Why?
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Typical. As advertised.
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Nothing to say. Look at your last responses to me. I put them all in the same category. I label it "weak".
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Fact is, your opinion is of no account. Your statement is arrogant. Your view is bigoted. Believe what you like, but demean the beliefs of others as depraved, expect the demeaned to speak up. This is an open forum, yours is a closed mind, Renumb, and you do your own kind a great injustice with your intolerant diatribe. It is a hoot to read your unbridled sanctimoniousness.
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I have given my opinion to one except those that challenge me. I made no statement but asked a question. My view is the condition of mankind whether you agree or not. You do not believe in God so this question does not apply to you. The forum was closed to those who believe in God and was obvious by the question. It is intolerant to an Atheist who is insecure in his lack of belief in God. I know and you know, there is nothing funny about this. You want to leave this conversation. But for some reason you just can't give it up. It is your pride, your ego. I am beginning to question myself of the same. Again, I am a work in progress.
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Yeah, you're definitely a piece of work. No question. You'd like to think you're attacked by multiple people when you debate. But the fact is, *many* people pick up on your hypocrisy, immediately. You being subject to special consideration by anyone, alludes to religious delusion. Honestly, you likely have some shade of mental illness. You verge on obsession. Very unhealthy.
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Have a good life Torngren.
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Twirling...
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The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man's heart is "deceitful and desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9), and the thoughts of his heart are "continually evil" (Genesis 6:5). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is "dead in transgressions" (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is "hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so" (Romans 8:7). (cont in comments)

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God must overcome man's depravity in such a way that man is able to recognize his spiritual state and his hopeless condition apart from the grace of God. Man's spiritually blind eyes must be open and the bondage of sin that renders him hopelessly enslaved must be broken so that he can respond in faith to the gospel message and the atoning work of Christ on the cross. Some Christians believe that God accomplishes this through some type of universal grace whereby God brings man to a condition where he has the ability to choose or reject Him. Others believe that for a man who is "dead in trespasses and sins" to be able to understand and respond to the gospel in faith, he must first be born again or regenerated by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3). It is only after God infuses spiritual life into a dead sinner that he can "see the kingdom of God." Those that hold this view see this as being a sovereign act of God, whereby men are born again "not of the blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13). Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html#ixzz2Nu5a1rdJ
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Strawberrygirl, Thank you for that answer. Very well said. I love hearing the truth being spoken or written. You paint such a beautiful picture of God. We ask so many questions on this site and God knows the answers to them all. No matter what way a person sees it, all glory goes to God.
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thanks
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