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DonQuixote

What is the best age to introduce one's child to religious faith?

People introduced early not uncommonly burn out and stop believing at a certain age. People never introduced suddenly and at old age become pious even though they had never lived a religious life at all and at times had been outright notorious in the face of religion and the law as well as the society.

In between there all sorts of characters.

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Religion relies on indoctrination of children by authority figures they trust and do not yet have the mental capacity to question the validity of the great claims of any religion. This is conditioning of children with repeated assertions through other adults (indoctrinated themselves as children), community, rituals, and most crucially - never to question any of it - critical thinking, skepticism, historicity, evidence, internal inconsistencies, etc. (by no accident, all central aspects of science), are never to be questions under penalty of another threat: eternal damnation - it's amazing what you can convince innocent children of when you frighten and even terrorize them. Some of us consider this child abuse.

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No, child abuse is telling your children there is no God. Knowing you could be wrong and sending them to Hell, and that's what you call love ? No love doesn't take chances, that's you playing God.
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DonQuixote
Have you ever heard these questions from a toddler?

1; Mom who is Jesus?
2; Does he have a dad?
3; What toys does he have
4; Is it true his mother is Virgin Mary?
5; Mommy. What is a Virgin?

And I say 'anybody wants ice cream?' to stop mommy from torment.
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As a victim of indoctrination herself, Deb is gonna toe the only line she understands. Ignorance is just ugly.
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Cerebro: excellent and articulate post as always. Thank you.

Deb: we would expect nothing less from you.

DonQuixote: are you chasing windmills or just looking for philosophical conversation? You never seem to give any definite answers but post more Qs. That is not such a bad thing. It makes interesting conversation. :0)
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DonQuixote
Thanks
I am just sharing my agony of parenting with some of you lucky ones:)
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Excellent post Cerebrogasm.
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@Don; There would be no agony for you or your child if you would simply cease the charade.
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Some of us consider it child abuse not to share

Well that is if there's really a heaven

Faith is believing in something wo knowing or seeing

We both have faith.

One of us is wrong

Yes child abuse
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The proof of my assertion is in the comments of those (read some here) by those so well indoctrinated, they willingly sacrifice their own intellectual honesty - an honesty which demands evidence underlay any great claim (called "rationality"), while they continue to adhere to 1st and 6th Century fables, drilled into their heads as children - and weekly or 5 times daily, to be nourished to keep them in their bubble of willful ignorance, in other words - through the demands of the dogma of their own indoctrination. The indoctrinated believers become emotionally vested in belief without evidence, even declaring their system of intellectual dishonesty, called "faith", a "virtue" (they pat themselves on the back for not only lying to themselves but to their children). They fail to recognize that others of different faiths - with similar admonishments regarding skepticism of their faith's dogma - (which includes dismissing all other religions or unbelievers as miss-guided and doomed) - believe they have the one true religion - and the one true God-head. Given that we have 7 billion humans on this planet at the moment - with three of the dominant mainstream religions, each composed of close to 2 billion followers, it stands to reason, mathematically, that the odds of any of them having the one true evidence-less supernatural claim correct, highly doubtful.
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To keep any faith alive the believers must pursue childhood indoctrination to keep the member-count high and to console themselves against the terrifying thought that there may just not be an "afterlife", (a fantasy by which only one faith has it right, to gain access to this human invented panacea paradise). Part of that self-consolation is to never admit they may have just got it all wrong - (because they too, were indoctrinated during childhood - and that is a central tenet of such indoctrination) - spending a colossal waste of their lives honoring and worshipping an invisible being or beings that they are told "loves you", (yet allows, daily, so many prayers to go unanswered - along with the daily horrors so many humans must face) - robbing children of what it means to be self-reliant, critical thinking, and living for now, & not some abstract evidence-less future "afterlife" - in other words, to force children to believe the irrational is rational and supply them with clever balms to resolve any cognitive dissonance provoked into their conscious thinking, by teaching them that superstition, and the obvious human fabrications of supernatural religious claims is truth, (before they even have the mental facilities to evaluate such claims), of any religion based on a supernatural invisible creature, of which they assert is "truth", that advocating to innocents a deity that is undetectable (and an abstraction of their wishful thinking - that does not like to be closely inspected), is reality, and yes, I consider that the work of irresponsible, childhood arrested, autocratic thinking adults, that never question what was told to them as the truth of reality, thereby abusing the full intellectual growth of any child - in other words, pure narcissism and clear evidence of their own psychological indoctrination - which is what I would call "evil".
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great answer and comments.
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Child abuse is saying Zeus does not control the thunders in the sky when you could be wrong about it and anger the gods. Is that what you call love? Next thing you know we'll be teaching our kids there is no Valhalla and that its ok to besmirch Hermes the messenger god.
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intellectualism is the very cause of demise
have lived that life
with people smarter than both of us (way)
im so glad i have left the place of self reliance and educated thought for wisdom
the banter here disappoints me more than it bores me
have heard it all (with scientists, mathematicians, historians)

lived it.
even agreed with
sadly
go to an orphanage of throw away mentally challenged kids in honduras, s africa, vanuatu or ouagadougo and see how far these words get you

forcing children? sigh
evidently people havnt heard.. love is choice.. no matter the "indoctrination"
still is
this stuff breaks my heart... we ALL see through a glass dimly
being "smart" only extenuates the issue/s
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best..., You really need to pay more attention to sentence structure and punctuation.
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not here.. its written JUST like it needs to be.. for this silly place
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Sorry for not editing the exposition all - I've got the flu (or something like it) and a fever - can't be as lucid as I should - but I think my posts are comprehensible... ;-)
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Comprehensible and in this case, compelling, big C. Very well said indeed.
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DonQuixote
@ cerebro
Sincerely speaking or writing.
How do you gunner 18 comments just like this?

Any tricks:)
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Don: I don't exactly know nor am I great at predicting, which response will ignite a "flame war " (a lot of responses, often contentious). Sometimes questions I put research effort into - doesn't even garner a "thank you".

This particular subject is highly sensitive to Americans that witnessed, on 9/11/01, a 6th Century religion, motivate a multi-pronged attack on American soil, using 21st Century technologies (aircraft) subverted to service the clearly written ancient religious dogma (you would have to read the "holy book" to actually understand this - not likely in a country that 80% of the population endorse a conflicting "holy book"). Most of us that witnessed this horrific act are scarred somewhere in our psyches - precisely the intent of the 9/11 "martyrs", to remind us we are not as safe as we had convinced ourselves (although, statistically, this is not a valid conclusion - but that validity gets lost, simply due to the theatricality of such a heinous act).
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So true. Nice answer.
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Thanks Shaylan - I was wondering if that was stated clearly enough - I've been down with a flu (I think) and my writing has been affected ;-)
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I think it was very well stated. Your answer reminds me exactly of my upbrining. Sorry you've been sick! I hope you get better soon! Your writing looks perfect to me. ;)
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Thanks Shaylan - much appreciated.
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BrotherObscura
i like this answer and someone at the top said that child abuse is telling the kid that there is not god but maybe doing it this way is saying choose your own god(s)
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with info
prob is adults are ignorant.. incl in this string
in the end.. children WILL choose.. that is the inherent point.. and without there is no love
there are 200 religions.. or versions of
find THE truth in them.. and dont judge them by the fallible people
i can NOT defend church or church history.. any more than i can agnostics or athiests.. all bumbling chumps.. all.. esp the smartest of
words and dendrites dont create faith.. they create masks
and we ALL have faith.. in something
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BrotherObscura
im sure there are more than 200 religions
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Children naturally trust authority as truthful - before age 7 or thereabout. If you haven't the physiological capability to reason rationally - you will believe in things like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.
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Never

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if you aren't going to take the questions seriously then don't answer them.
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@Tennis; Mac's answer IS a serious answer to a serious question. There is never a good time to indoctrinate a child with nonsense.
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I'm waiting until they start asking. At that point I will tell them about all the different world religions and explain their origins, history, and where in the world the generally occur. Then I will explain that none of them have any proof, and I don't believe in any of them, but that they are free to believe in any religion they want.
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BrotherObscura
but then you may give them a biased answer so it would probably be best if you spoke of the many religions then let them do research on it.
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There is no way around it, of course the truth will bias them.
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BrotherObscura
no the truth is always unbiased its their rligious opinions and beliefs not the researches
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When they are old enough to understand and choose for themselves. Otherwise I feel it's brainwashing.

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Perfect.
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DonQuixote
I have great respect for the 2 of you for past experience on ask.
Do we wait for them to be old enough to choose the flesh food? Say not breast feed at birth unless they understand and choose to?
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I'm sorry Don, but that's silly to compare something that sustains life to choosing what religion they are, or what deity they believe in.
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DonQuixote
Sorry CJ easy.
Spiritual VS flesh food:)
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You don't need to believe in God to live. However you do have to eat to live.
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DonQuixote
Thanks CJ. We'll meet in another arena hopefully.
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BrotherObscura
also its the responsibility of the parent to take care of the baby and i read nowhere that the parent (of any religion) is supposed to teach the child theres (except the bible). but not everyone lives by bible
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The Bible says to "train up a child in the way that he should go, and when he grows old he will not depart from it." So teach them as young as possible, and raise them up right.

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DonQuixote
Thanks for good Biblical quote. Any comments on the two extreme examples in real life?
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Yes
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Raise them up "right"? What does that even mean?
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@cjkenkel: raise them up the way they need to be raised.
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@donquixote: what do you mean?
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DonQuixote
The small print under my question.
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An atheist can do that. "Raise them up right". We don't need religion to teach our children right from wrong, manners, respect, etc. I'm sorry you feel that way
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I'm sorry you don't feel that religion needs to teach moral values to our children. Listen, I really hate fighting over things like this. Why can't we just leave it at we disagree, and not get into something it needs to be? I refuse to agree with you, but that doesn't mean we need to discuss this. All I was trying to do was share my views on this situation, and you have just as much a right to share your feelings as I do.
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*something it doesn't need to be?
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@don: I think that people who have never had a religion have tried to use science to try to disprove God. But the thing is that He is a God that created science, and there are definitely parallels to both science and creation. Those who have had a religion, but turned from it either had the wrong one, or has not experienced God in the way that He wants them to, or have experienced God and got hurt by someone, thinking it was God when it wasn't. I've experienced God in incredible ways, and can confidently say that I will stand on the truth that He is real. Nothing anyone can say can waver me from that fact. I've had discussions with athiests who believe they way they do, and they've tried to prove me wrong, but the more I experience God's presence, the less I believe them.
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Dr3: Nobody "uses science" to disprove God. Science just makes it easier to question certain religious teachings. The fact that there are theists who are also staunch supporters of scientific discoveries and achievements is evidence that science does not disprove God. Those who disagree with certain scientific discoveries would like to think that science is "out to get God", but that is not the case.

God is a supernatural issue; meaning it is outside the laws of nature. Science has no position on God. God is outside the purview of science. Science is charged with understanding our natural world within the bounds of natural law. Religion is charged with understanding the supernatural world within the bounds of the sacred writings and experiences of each religion's adherents. The problems arise when one tries to cross those boundaries. It is my experience that science only attempts to keep religion from crossing into its boundary while maintaining a neutral stance regarding religion.
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DonQuixote
@Dr
Thanks. for your answer. I hope someone else answers the other end of the spectrum.
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well its best when they're young, as baby (maybe toddler) but one reason (not mine, my friend's-she has become an atheist for this reason) is because parents are putting too much pressure on the child's own personal decision. think of it this way- would you like it if your boss kept pressuring you become something that you already are? wouldn't you stop being that one thing just to make him mad? that's my exact point. Your child needs support, but not too much, just enough for you to be part of their life, but not as an extreme mentor. Good luck i guess

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There is no 'too young'. Hymns of praise should be the first songs they hear and learn to sing. Luckily, most make excellent lullabys. They may not stay in the religion for the whole of their lives but have the best chance of it if you start at the beginning of their lives.

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DonQuixote
Just like 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star' early just in case they become Musicians or Computer Wizards and Witches.
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Thank you Littlehorse for your wonderful answer.
I am following you now.
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Faith is a gift.

Give it as early as possible.

Remember, once we give a gift, we have no claim on it.

Support your child in his quest find out from God what the instructions are for that gift which--- because you and God have both given it---is twice blessed.

(Isn't it amazing how many intelligent people fail to grasp this simple reality?)

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DonQuixote
It might not be amazing because faith and intelligence are world apart.
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But neither is inconsistent with the other.

It still amazes me that people think that human decisions are made in a vacuum by some soft of intellectual process that has been uninfluenced by experience---as if the existence or non-existence of something were contingent upon your thoughts about that something.

As if their "choice" of a belief--either primarily atheistic or theistic-- is made as if they had a "tabula rasa."
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DonQuixote
Exactly. That is why 'might' might be a juicy cover-up.
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Other words brainwash
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Brainwashing had a bad name thanks to the Manchurian Candidate.

It's also a psychological technique.

Parents, teachers, etc brainwash kids everyday and it's obviously an acceptable practice.

Perhaps we should not teach children about anything---what's safe, dangerous, etc. until they are old enough to understand and make their own judgments about whether something like sticking a knife into one of their friends is right or wrong.
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Why don't you have enough faith that your child will decide for his or herself? Do you have so little faith that you are right that you need to control their minds before they are old enough to work it out for themselves?

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DonQuixote
I went to school aged 8. Now they start aged 3:)

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oh come on. look around you. the idea of Jesus Christ and God sounds almost to crazy to believe today. if you start when the child have been exposed to all the media and people like you, they obviously are incorrectly influenced.
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DonQuixote
@ Nigel
Honestly speaking I'm done with my own child-upbringing and the outcome was mixed as expected.
It is time that has made me ask this question for the sake of my great grand children.

So the age is ?
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BrotherObscura
religion is on the media too Tennis, i see church on tv multiple times a week. i don't watch it because it feels like they are trying to prove themselves right all the time ordering everybody around. im not abrahamic but i have only seen abrahamic shows on tv. weres some pagan tv. native american tv. or weres worshipping the budda and not christ
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Teach them the wonderful news about God as early as possible.

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When your child is able to understand and comprehend your words and teachings and make decisions for themselves...

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Pretty00
Good answer.
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Thank you Kali...
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The earlier you start the more effective the brainwashing will be, if you're really good you could have them flying planes into buildings in no time. But if you really believe your faith is true and strong you can wait until their late teens. That way they'll be making an educated and rational decision based on logic and reason.

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DonQuixote
That reminds me. Good swimmers start immediately after birth before they loose the swimming reflex:)
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Well since we're all born atheists I suppose it's all the more reason for theists to start indoctrination early before that reflex takes hold.
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brainwashing? are you kidding me? look in the mirror. then ask who the real one brainwashed is. just because you don't believe in god doesn't mean you can't respect those who do.
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@Tennis. Brainwashing entails enforcing a narrow worldview and thereby limiting access to opposing points of view. I have read the Christian bible, the Jewish Torah and Talmud, the Muslim Qur'an, the Hindu Vedas. I have studied Buddhism, ancient Greek/Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Sumerian, Canaanite, Chinese, Japanese, and various Native American tribal beliefs. I have degrees in history and sociology, and I'm a prodigious reader of all things political, philosophical, and religious.
As to respect, I will respect someone as another human being, but not their belief in their adult version of Santa Claus.
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Considering that tennis here has gone onto every answer to insult those who don't support childhood religious indoctrination, it is obvious SHE doesn't respect those who don't believe in gods.

Pot and kettle.
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Star Cal!
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Everyone is born an atheist but brainwash into any religion,tennis
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As soon as they're born

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I would as soon as they can make it through the mass without crying, so it doesn't disturb other people. also enroll them in a CCD class that most churches offer to teach kids about the bible

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DonQuixote
Crying or their way of saying Alleluia:)
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I'm assuming your at least an adult and you need to be more mature and learn to respect other religions.
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Indoctrination by the indoctrinated. This is the prescription for filling pews relied upon by organized religions for centuries. No thought involved, no reasoning allowed. Child abuse.
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DonQuixote
Your assumption is right. There is this group of adult life equated with children. Some even forget they are heads of some powerful organisation. In other words they are over mature and regarded with respect as senior citizens in other circles but those who care.
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By "respect other religions" do you mean the part where you have gone onto every nonbeliever's comment to badger them?
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tennis... So thoughtful of you to wait for the crying to stop, before beginning the brainwashing, to not disturb others.
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lol ya pretty much. come on don't let some random kids opinion stop you all from getting the stick out of your asses.
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Immature, ignorant, AND offensive. What a delightful trifecta.
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i take pride in that thank you.
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I think you should bring the child to a religion about when they start kindergarten because that is when they start to learn. But when the child is around 12 because that is when the kid becomes more aware of its surroundings and can understand what the religion is all about and can make a choice to fallow that religion or not.

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when they know what's right from wrong and old enough to learn that kind of stuff

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birth

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Right from the beginning.
Age two at least. Or earlier. To begin basic exposure to Bible stories and the lessons they teach. People only 'burn out' if they are taught incorrectly or have it forced upon them. I was a bed baby, born and raised in church. I came to truely know God at an early age. I never 'burned out' on God, tho i did become disenfranchised from organized, denominational human religion for a time in college. Specifically the one i was raised in. Never left God tho and He helped me find a non-denominational church that lacks much of the human non-Biblical or semi-Biblical denominational teachings that often obscure the Truth.

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Most believers insist it should be from birth, but wouldn't it be more productive to have believers who have chosen your faith rather than those indoctrinated without choice?

Teach your child to level headed thinkers and to be good people. Should they choose your faith, then more power to you. But it should never be forced upon anyone. Some say it is child abuse, but I look at it more like Stockholm syndrome. When there is no choice...it is forced.

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Stars for the Stockholm Syndrome analogy!
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I believe it should be from the beginning. Raise them in whatever religion you believe in, and when they're old enough to decide whether they believe in what they were taught, they can decide what to believe in. It's not brainwashing because some don't believe in what they were raised believing in forever.

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If they are taught from birth that one religion is right and true, and never taught about others, how can you claim you have given them a "choice" to "decide" whether they believe it? They have been indoctrinated.
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That's not true. Many people grow up and learn about other religions through history classes and what not, and they determine whether they believe what they were brought up being taught. I was brought up a Catholic, I've learned about other religions, and I'm 16 now and still a Catholic.
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I did not state that people CAN'T do so (I am one of them) but that the vast majority do NOT, because they are indoctrinated from birth that one religion is absolutely true and others false. It never even occurs to them that other religions or positions might be correct.
So calling it a "choice" when you have not presented options and indeed have incredibly stacked the deck (not to mention have used your position as a trusted authority figure to advocate as truth something no one knows for certain) is a misnomer.
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You're really taking this out of context
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"out of context" ? LoL
That is the exact context.
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Country girl, ... ever wonder why you're not a Muslim ? Its because you were never indoctrinated to be one as a child , but instead you were indoctrinated to be a Catholic.
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It is precisely in context.

You claim to have "learned about" other religions, but like the vast majority of the population I doubt highly that you approached that study with the notion that your existing beliefs could be wrong and others (or none at all) were right. When you are indoctrinated from childhood that a religion is right and true, your confirmation bias will make it extraordinarily difficult to see any other system of belief clearly.
There is a reason that almost everyone in the world believes what their parents believe- childhood indoctrination.
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Only after they express interest. And then, they should be given options, not orders. All the 'right after they're born' answers are disgusting and scary.

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Pretty00
Just curious. Where does this interest aroused from?
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Pretty00
*arouse
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Pretty00
Nothing?
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I was curious if you were even going to make the 19th comment, lol; Their interest, or better, curiosity, is usually a result of just wanting to know what a word or term they've recently heard means. At that point, it's a good idea to have the talk, find out who exposed them to the concept, etc. There is no 'natural' curiosity in children to find God(s).
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Do not focus on religion. Read the Bible to them when they are infants, and teach them to read when they are young. As they grow study the Bible as a family. Most importantly keep them in your prayers no matter what.

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Not until the age of reason. Only then are you presenting the child with a true choice- when they have the ability to reason out whether or not they find merit with the claims of your religion.
It is also best to tell the child that there are many beliefs, not just yours, and that no one can be certain of being correct.

Anything else is indoctrination.

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When they reach the age where they start to ask questions, they are starting to try and reason. Every child should study both religion, and science. It's not fair to teach only one belief, that's indoctrination. God is not just in the Bible, God is also in the science Books.organized Religion is in neither.its too hateful.

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Pretty00

For the Christian, they're commanded by God to teach their 'children' in the way that they should go. As far as age, I believe it's at the age where they can comprehend. An infant doesn't know anything but wanting to be fed & loved. This is my opinion.

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Whenever you feel its right.Its your child you know it best.

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I think about how 90% of serial killers use bible scriptures to justify their heinous crimes against their victims. I think its safe to say, until we can tell if a person is mentally unstable, they should not know about the bible.

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DonQuixote
Good.
Figure apart and whether thinking is faith or science apart. Tell us what % of those killers were introduced early and what never until they saw light?
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All those killers were introduced early to religion and sexually suppressed by their indoctrination.
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DonQuixote
wow
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Please, NEVER.
I would do anything to be able to live my life over without the religious indoctrination I started with.

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Hi, Raven. :) Same here!
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Shaylen, You're sooo lucky to have shed it so much younger than I did.
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Really? I feel like I shed it so much older than most people I have spoken to on here! How old were you, if you don't mind my asking? I was just a few months shy of 21.
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LoL, I was in my 40s haha, and an involved pillar of the faith till I had to be honest with myself and admit that what I believed was no better than any other mythology.
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Mind if I ask if our go-arounds a had any influence on you.
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Oh wow. See, from what I've noticed, it seems most people are around 18 or younger, perhaps because the teenage age of "rebellion" and starting to consider views outside the views of parents. That's too bad it took till then, but I think in its kinda neat that at that age you were still able to change your mind. I bet I could plant doubts into my parents mind, but they probably would still choose to believe it. It seems when most people have believed in something so long, they have a harder time letting go of it, so I find that kinda amazing, haha, (in a good way.) A lot of people rather live keep their bubbles and illusions than face the truth- I honestly think its partially a choice, to believe in God and what not. I mean, you don't have to work so hard to believe in things that provide proof.
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I actually recently answered a question by lololoves about what lead me away from believing in God, if you're curious. Its kinda fuzzy- I don't exactly remember all our past convos, but I am sure our conversations had an influence on me! A great handful of the athiests I agrued with and witnessed arguing with christains had an influence on me and defiantly planted my first seeds. I think our go-arounds did affect me, for sure. Ask.com played a huge role- the arguments of atheists were always more rational than mine, and I always ran out of material and left with doubts that I tried to push away; it scared me sometimes, haha. "cr@p what if they're right?" I tried to debate less after those feelings came, lol. Truthisobvious (undyingevil), had a big influence, I think I debated with him the most, before I discontinued having christian debates. I am pretty certain our convos had an influence on me.
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cerebrogasm, me, you and some others had a lot of exchange on a fewmonism where I referenced a lot of earlier Mormon publications.
And you had gotten an answer of mine deleted that used the term delusion in it. LoL, that "inspired" my series of questions asking about the difference between delusion and faith or religious belief. Didn't see much much of you right after that. They're still in my questions of my profile of course. From what I can figure you became atheist soon-ish after that. It might be interesting for you to look over your activity in my questions.
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I was still serving on the parish council and helping to run the book store of a Russian Orthodox Church here in Kodiak when atheist thoughts became promo are in my mind. For several years I was a helpful participant but wouldn't take communion because I knew inside; I didn't believe in what it represented. But I still mis singing in the choir and the social network of like-minded friends.
The like-mindedness is certainly gone. HaHa
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LoL, I should have proofread this before I posted it. Oh well better late than never in this case.
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Line 2 should be:
lot of exchange on a few questions about Mormonism where I
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Line 17 should be:
thoughts became more prominent in my mind. For
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Lol! I'm sorry!! I actually remember the last question now, it was "what is the difference between myth and faith?" Haha. Yes- I think that was the end of our conversations. It was defiantly a heated convo, haha. Sorry if I was ever rude! And I actually was still a christian for quite some time, it was ultimately my experiences at college, that helped the planted seeds grow, haha. Even more so now, the more I learn, the more ridiculous my beliefs of my up bringing seem.
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The social asspect of church is defiantly nice! But yea.... Like mindeness is certainly gone. I remember you said you lived in Alaska! How are the bears? Haha.
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The Bears here in Kodiak had a bumper crop of both berries and salmon to feed them and me this summer. The blueberries are still on the bush to pick.
I know what you mean about former beliefs becoming more and more ridiculous as time goes on. My former beliefs of God, the devil, heaven, hell, angels, and demons, really do seem as ridiculous as unicorns, leprechauns, tree fairies, and pots of gold at the ends of rainbows.
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HaHa, well as they say, the seeds fell on good ground. Jesus was ahead of his time with that parable. If he only knew how many people have been inspired to become atheist after close examination of his life.
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Whats a bumper crop? That's cool; bears are amazing animals. I still want to visit Alaska to see the wildlife, haha.
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Exaclty. And what is so obnoxious, is other's inability to comprehend that not everyone believes the same as them-I keep getting this guy on here asking to hear the "pro" side for religion, and considering that I was religous for quite some time, I do not know exactly what he thinks he is going to tell me that I have not already once believed-but they continue to push it. Religious types seem to think athiests merely need more "convincing." Apparently, I am close minded. Some are respectable to how silly others see your beliefs, and others, not so much! They're so "sad" that I do not believe as them. It is bizarre-can't get this user off my tail.
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Lol, it is interesting how scriputures themselves often point to atheism. I remember reading the old testiment when I was 19, and I just gasped. I prayed about the book of mormon when I was 19 as well, as you're suppose to do, and felt nothing. I think I wouldve stopped believing sooner but I was in denial, because intuitively, I think I knew living at home, its not like I could just pick up and stop practicing my religion. And the idea of no heaven scared me at the time, or that I was "alone." I am envious of all the religious folks that are whose parents and family are anti church, haha.
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Lol-looked up the q btw. I remember now, haha. Rain was there too-we were like a religious duo; now that I don't believe, he can't stop attempting to get me to reconsider. "All living beings have faith." Omg, lol. That's what I was taught though. There was always the analogy of the light switch, or the sun, and the fact that we knew that they worked, due to faith. That always puzzled me.... "But... I've turned on light switches several times.... I know they work...The earth revolves around the sun... That's a scientific fact." I didn't say anything, but, that's what I was thinking. But they equate that to "faith" to argue that faith is rational.
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HaHa it's interesting going back and reading how you used to think, isn't it. I've done that with old note book papers that I've written and kept.
That is a frequent theme to try using the word faith to apply to ordinary familiar things that we do to make it sound rational.
A bumper crop is a big crop, lots of berries and a big run of salmon.
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I've been sticking to the definition of faith being a belief that something is true without evidence.
Because where there is evidence no faith is needed so faith cannot exist where there is evidence.
But a belief is independent of evidence. Something can be believed because of evidence or in the absence of evidence.
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It is, haha. That's a really good idea! I've been thinking of having a notebook, but I usually like to write late and that's when my family does prayers or I end up falling asleep, haha. I'll have to work around that. Haha, you know, not that we're talking about, I do remember having that convo again in church after I'd spoken to you and that question, and it made me pretty skeptical. So, yea, our convos has an impact. This time it was having faith that a chair would hold you up. -_- Lol, do they not see how contradictory that analogy is? And this is an adult, with six kids... 0_o
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Your definition is essentially what Christians say faith is; the belief in something unseen that is hoped for. Of course, they always add the "true" bit, which is faith is completely irrelevant to. I remember I mentioned that, haha, the "true" bit.
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I agree with your definition, however I think once you have enough substantial evidence of something, it's knowledge, which is either accepted or rejected.
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*now that we're talking about it
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Over the more recent years of of being atheist I am far more at peace with my self and actually also far more at ease and confident that I will be a thoughtful, compassionate, caring person without that idiotic, self defeating battle between good and evil going on inside me. I truly believe that, that Christian dogma of a bifurcated universe where it's thought evil comes from the second most powerful supernatural creature in the universe is the most evil belief of Christianity. I have something written up that expounds on that concept some. I'll find it and paste here.
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This isn't it but I thought you might like it.
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It dawns on us that others have goals, needs, pains, and desires like our own.
Empathy rises and allows us to see the needs of others as our own.
Compassion ascends to urge us into action and feel virtuous warmth.
Love is the noon day apex of what it means to be human in all it's bright splendor.
"I love you." is all that we have been, all that we are, and all that we hope to be, offered as a gift to share for the fulfillment and happiness of the loved and lover.
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Here's another one.of my atheist sentiments. lol
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It dawns on us that others have goals, needs, pains, and desires like our own.
Empathy rises and allows us to see the needs of others as our own.
Compassion ascends to urge us into action and feel virtuous warmth.
Love is the noon day apex of what it means to be human in all it's bright splendor.
"I love you." is all that we have been, all that we are, and all that we hope to be, offered as a gift to share for the fulfillment and happiness of the loved and lover.
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Aaaaaaaa !!! That's not the one I wanted. I HATE not having editing in comments.
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Here it is.
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Tickets to your own paradise are always free. Your daily life can be your paradise if you are filled with gratitude, kindness and understanding. Be grateful for every minute others use for your benefit, even the checker at the checkout or the customer service person answering your questions are helping you to have a better life. Every moment of your life can be paradise.
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This is a theme I have repeated in answers and comments here.
I saw you post an answer that was quite similar also.
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Religion being used as a way to explain the unknown could only be possible after religion and the concept of god/s/supernatural already existed.
So what initiated the existence of religion which must have god/s or a supernatural component at its core?
Human nature.
As humans and human society evolved, cooperation and empathy has also become more developed.
It is the evolution of the empathetic nature of humans that has made the concept of god/s possible to become an explanation for what we don't understand.
By definition empathy is being able to perceive and feel from the perspective of others.
As empathy evolved from simply being willing to help one we see in need as even rats have,
http://news.discovery.com/animals/rats-empathy-111209.htm
to an integral ingredient of social bonding as monkeys, apes and other social animals demonstrate,
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_evolution_of_empathy
to the third person omniscient perspective on society and the universe we live in. Religion and the activity of omniscient god/s was then able to become an explanation for what we do not yet understand.
The concept and existence of god/s and religion is the result of a misunderstood manifestation of human nature.
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Okay this one is the one that I initially intended to post for you.
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....... On the evils of salvation
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The religious concept of humanity needing salvation is among the most twisted, upside down, self-destructive, self-perpetuating evils in society. With that concept as part of how a culture thinks and defines itself, children are born and raised in an environment being taught from birth they have a sinful nature and are irresistibly prone to misbehaving in ways that displease parents and imagined gods. Of course a person being taught this makes them feel hopeless with the concept to just enjoy being a good person on your own. Being kind, compassionate, generous, forgiving, and generally empathetic to people in our surroundings has such reward in and of itself that it's hard to imagine why anyone would ever be otherwise. The religious concepts of what a person is being saved from such as influences of Satan and demons and an inborn evil nature does nothing but magnify many, many times the difficulty of resisting a passing thought to do something that is thought by most to be undesirable or destructive behavior. Instead of it just being a passing dumb thought that a good person like yourself would never do, it becomes perceived as a struggle to resist the second most powerful supernatural being in the universe, a host of demons, and your own sinful nature that you were born with. That thinking has the potential of creating a downward spiral of insanity, where a passing thought becomes a struggle, and the struggle becomes an obsession, and the obsession becomes overwhelming, feeling overwhelmed leads to bad decisions, and bad decisions lead to the destruction of your self image as a good or valuable person. Then of course you need "saved". From religion.
>>> These religious concepts are diametrically opposed to what science has taught us about human nature. Research done with young children, babies, and even other social animals like other primates and rats show that we have evolved and are born with an empathetic nature. I have certainly seen it in my own children. I frequently refer to my five-year-old boy as my role model because I see his consistently empathetic nature and kind hearted behavior.
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I feel the same. I think I am more far more self-assured than I was prior. I use to pray over and over to ask to help me forget or be ok with the same things-which really only instilled my emotions by constantly focusing on them and left me at the whims of some hope that some magical mystical being would take my hand and fix my problems. Defiantly very unhealthy. I've grown so much more confidence in learning to critically think and rely on my own wits and strength to push through things. I am finding more and more everyday that I am more capable than I thought-in Christianity, it is constantly instilled that we're nothing on our own. I've found that that is not true-while I am not above the occasional assurance and assistance of another, if I think that I am somehow at the mercy of some unseen beings will, I am not going to progress very far. It is so much better to think for yourself. I'm most defiantly more compassionate and open minded than I was before.
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Nice article. I agree 100%. As far as animals go, I have always been very passionate about animals; use to read wildlife magazines like zoo books in a day, and I'd spend a great majority of the time watching wild life programs on tv. I'd spend as much time as I could with other people pets as well as my own and hang out on my parent's friends ranch, haha. I relate to animals so much and have always considered myself a animal rights activist, and it always hits a nerve in me when people claim animals have less or no morality in comparison to humans. I connect to animals and relate to them on a deep level, and I've defiantly felt and seen how emotionally complex, empathetic, and INTELLIGENT they are. Christians seem to think they own morality, due to their "immoral" nature that needs biblical and godly direction, and that animals are purely instinct driven. But it has been studied in the largest mammals such as cetaceans, to the smallest rat. Surely our egocentric kind doesn't consider man less than rats, who are capable of morals without the "necessity" of some supreme being. Empathy is purely biological, and I think it's where morality stems from. People need to realize morality is always subjective. Someone on here tried to claim morality was objective-which I find utterly ridiculous. If that was the case, we'd act against our intuition and conscience.
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Love this one on rats;

http://m.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-new-model-of-empathy-the-rat/2011/12/08/gIQAAx0jfO_story.html
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I'm very passionate about cetaceans, such as orcas and dolphins, and very anti-captivity. I've expressed and shared with many people in order to spread awareness, about the complex social life and deep emotions and intelligence of these beings, who are able to make conscious decisions, and work cooperatively as groups, and how captivity imposes on that and I've expressed and even shown video clips from documentaries about the cruelties that go on at billion dollar cooperations that exploit these animals such as sea world. They live up to 60 years in the wild, calves stay with their parents for life, and like us, they have language; each pod region has a different set of dialects. Each group also has a separate set of hunting techniques and diets that are passed down to generation, and the swim 100 miles a day. In captivity, they're reduced to silly tricks and swimming in circles, and they've been known to fight with each other, due to frustration of being kept in close quarters and being unable to undersand one another. Orcas in captivity usually only live to their 20's or teens and die due to stress related illness. It was recently been discovered that dolphins identify themselves by name-they have a unique whistle to identify themselves, and can mimic the unique whistle of other Dolphins they use this to identify themselves, and to call to each other. Orcas and dolphins are just to self-aware and intelligent to be kept in captivity-some scientists speculated after studied their brain antomy, that they may be even more intelligent than us. (I don't doubt it.) It upsets my parents when I compare wild behaviors to the unmet needs and cruelties in captivity, but then at the same time, they say, "well, the bible days that God out these animals here for us." (In a nut shell.) I know it would've give away my opposition and perhaps even my lack of belief to such ideas, but that makes me sick, honestly. And I see this idea is common among Christians, that we're to dominate animals. There is a space between us and wildlife that we have not learned to respect-considering that these animals were here before we evolved, the claim that we're somehow entitled to them, makes no sense. The bible advocates silence in women as well, but I decided not to go there. Of course, many Christians reject any idea such as evolution that might contradict their beliefs, perhaps it's easier to justify exploiting animals if God supposedly made man more privileged and entitled. I honestly believe animals are the more moral species.
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Humans are the only species that I know of, that somehow think their desires to witness wildlife up close and personal outweighs wild animals rights to freedom. Of course, atheists understand or are more likely to quickly accept animals as their own entities with their own individuals rights and individual purpose. Religion tends to put man above animals, creates a division between the sexes where woman are somehow "subservients" with their lower rules, ect ect.
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I also hate the lack of editing in comments. The comments should have a 15 minute edit time like the answers! Only problem is, that might make it easier for others to get away with foul and rude sayings before "fixing it."
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*says *put
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Oh oops, I meant my speaking against what else the bible also says, would've given away my position.
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Sorry for all the long text posts, I just think these findings on dolphins and whales are so cool;
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"It turns out humpback whales, fin whales, killer whales, and sperm whales posse spindle cells in the same area of their brains as spindle cells in human brains. This brain region is linked with social organization, empathy, intuition about the feelings of others, as well as rapid, gut reactions. Spindle cells, once thought to be unique to humans and other great apes, are believed to be important in processing emotions. And whales actually have more than humans do."-Marc Bekoff.
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Something someone posted with a link on their blog, that I unfortunately can't find, but found very neat, about the possibility of dolphins being more emotional than humans;
Our brains share many structural similarities with dolphins. For example, we both have a limbic system, which is responsible for handling emotional information. One difference between us, however, is that the dolphins? limbic system is much larger than ours and, says scientist Denise Herzig, it ?may be stretched out over more of the brain,? indicating that ?the dolphin brain may have more of a ?global connection? to [emotional] information?. This could mean that dolphins are more emotional than humans, and that emotions could figure more prominently throughout their thought processes.
While it might be tempting to think that increased emotions would lead to greater aggression when being backed into a corner, another compelling feature of the dolphin brain appears to account for this notion. Sterling Bunnell, in The Evolution of Cetacean Intelligence points out that the cerebral cortex, responsible for logical thought and reasoning in both humans and dolphins alike, is controlled by the emotional activity of the limbic system. This process is facilitated by what are called ?neocortical association neurons?.
Bunnell observed that, in human studies, the ratio of these neurons to limbic-system brain stem neurons ?is necessary for such qualities as ?emotional self-control? and that a decreased ratio is associated with ?impulsiveness, emotional instability, irritability, loss of humor?. Bunnell points out that dolphins possess a higher neocortical-limbic ratio than the average human, suggesting that their control over their own emotions is greater than what we experience.
It could be that dolphins, while being more emotional, are more emotionally stable than we are, and are therefore able to better control themselves in stressful situations.
This could also explain why dolphins are so tractable in captivity. Live dolphins are captured in Taiji and are sold to aquariums around the world. Despite being severely traumatized, Bunnell points out that, ?captive dolphins? have often shown humor, empathy, and self-control that few of us could match under comparable circumstances?. Indeed. These beings are separated from their families, placed into sterile tanks that are utterly unlike any environment they?re exposed to in the wild, and are forced to perform tricks through food deprivation - if they don?t perform, they don?t eat. Yet they treat nearly every one of their customers with what appears to be kindness and understanding. Something to keep in mind the next time you accept a ?kiss? from a captive dolphin.
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I absolutely believe and I think there is enough substantial evidence to support it, that orcas and dolphins are more emotional and intelligent than us. It has also recently been discovered by neuroscientists who analyzed orca and dolphin brains, that orcas and dolphins posse a part of the brain behind their limbic system that we don't have. If we are to be superior to these animals, that can go about their lives without fear of some supreme being, and act morally towards one another, and even US, (many cases, such as the popular story if New Zealand, were dolphins created a protective circle around a father and his three daughters, for 45 minutes to protect them from a shark,) then humans should be able to do the same. Bottle nose dolphins, second to us, have the largest brains in comparison to their body size. We're so alike, it's insane. That just shows It is purely evolutionary and biological, to be empathetic and moral. Imagine if everyone accepted this-there would be so much peace and harmony! Humans are incredibly intelligent, and capable of respect towards others, but this indoctrination and passing down of dogmatism is seriously harming our society.
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Great stuff ! Thanks for posting.
It's exciting to see you understand
the potential of humanity and
harm of religious dogma.
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HaHa, I think all these posts we've made do a good job of explaining my,
"Please, never." answer to the original question.
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You're welcome. :) Another cool recent discovery I forget to mention-dolphins can remember a pod member's whistle after over 20 years. Haha, I defiantly understand the detriments more now then I did before!
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Haha, yes, defiantly. Too bad not many people will read it... I can easily say I've learned far more about what it means to be empathetic and moral from my studies and interactions with animals, and children as well. Who, like you said, are also very empathetic, and extremely emotional. It's so unethical and immoral to exploit their innocence and limitations in understanding to pass on one's indoctrinated beliefs onto them. Like abuse, it's a vicious cycle. It's amazing what this world could learn if they simply open their hearts and minds to animals and children. They're our best examples. I've learned from adults as well, defiantly, (don't want to sound anti-social/human, lol, love people too,) but I've mostly been surrounded by the wrong kind, haha.
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By The Way
Did you know that everywhere you meant definately, there is defiantly.
Well, unless I completely misunderstand you.
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Oops, lol. My auto corrected also sometimes corrects "say" to "days." definitely sometimes gets corrected to "defiantly", as well. And the difference is so subtle, I forgot to pay attention. Sorry!
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Thanks for pointing that out- I need to pay more attention to that! >.< That could be embarrassing, haha.
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Sorry for taking so long to respond! I had church. -_- Its starts at 1 but I leave at 12:30. I always like to try and squeeze in time to do things prior-it's 3 hours long! Then I went to a friend's.
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Thanks for the link! Elephants are very emotional animals, super intelligent, too. Elephants don't cope with sadness like humans do, where humans will suppress, deny, ect, elephants will refuse to get up, or eat or drink, when a calf or mate dies. They can actually die of a broken heart. I'm certain they must cry as well. Apes, gorillas, chimps, orcas, and elephants have all shown signs of grief.

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/695312/India-elephant-dies-of-broken-heart.html?pg=all?ref=http://www.ask.com/touch/web?q=Can%20elephants%20die%20of%20a%20broken%20heart%3F%20&o=0
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Don't brain wash you kids,let them became what that want on their own

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train up a child in the WAY he SHOULD GO. introduce to a child the way of the Lord at his/her younger age so that when he grew up, he will not become atheists.


Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

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DonQuixote
Well said Santa Stefano.
Kindly would you explain the two extremes of the impact of the ages mentioned above in the Q?
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let us read,


John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


regardless of age. if a man is of God heareth God's words, if they refused let say a child when he/she grew up refused to continue to serve God, this mean that He is not of God. if an old man develop an interest to hear God's word then He is of God.

regardless of age, if
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there are some who are like this,

let us read,


2 Timothy 4:3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

having itching ears; they move away from God. these are adult. some leave God because they maybe tired of hearing the word of God.

but it is better to follow the recommendation of the bible,

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.



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DonQuixote


Thanks
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JakeKochert
Yep, make them never question religion. Let them believe science is a lie. INDOCTRINATE THEM
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When they are full grown adults and will question every single thing you tell them.

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Some people have a negative attitude towards having a moral compass and would like it more if people would join themselves to the death culture and other sinister cultures so that they themselves would not feel so guilty of their inordinate behaviors and responsibilities. While we all have failure, they aim for having no conscious and only self gain at any price...
and calling evil good, and good, evil...with no call to repentance...

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There are many differing views on this matter. But usually when parents decide that they want their child to be a doctor, lawyer, dancer, or in some special field they start very early putting the ideal in their head. They will even get them some special training very early to get them on the right path. So when it comes to our relationship with God why would that be any different? The morals that they can learn will just make them a better person in the long run. In fact 2 Tim.3:14,15 says that Timothy was trained from infancy by his mother and grandmother.

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DonQuixote
Joseph failed to train Jesus as a carpenter?
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No, I'm sure he did but I couldn't think of a scripture that says Joseph train Jesus. Can you think of one?
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DonQuixote
Pamela:
Very clever. Well read and excellent grasp of the question.
If I still had a child to bring up I would wish they adopt your approach.

Thanks:)
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The Bible says to raise your kids well, and they wont go away when they grow. Kids who were raised in religion and then went away were raised wrong. But kids like my pastor s son do know God, not just from hearing, but know God personally.

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Religion is like circumcision. Try convincing an 18 year old to go for it!

Many religiously devout understand this, however, and this is WHY they rally the cry, "Get 'em while they's YOUNG!!!"

I have a strong feeling that by the time I am senile, religious indoctrination will be seen as the child abuse it really is. Will it still persist, despite wide public outrage at its mention?

Are small children still mol ested by their loved ones?

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One of the early church fathers once said give him a young child he would teach him in the ways if the church until he's a young adult and he would never turn away. That's because it's indoctrination. As far as a moral guide I raised my children without indoctrination and they turned out with morals, so you don't need the book of fables to teach your youth morality.

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Well, seedy, let's not be confused. The morals you taught your children in the absence of God were still gifted to you from a God. Or something.
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The Bible says that children are an inheritance from Jehovah God ( Psalms 127:3). God has the best advice in the Bible about when to start teaching them about Him. Parents share their religion, habits, ways of life with their children from the start. Proverbs 22:6 says " train up a boy according to they way for him even when he grows old he will not turn aside from it" . 2 Timothy 3:15 talks about Timothy being trained from infancy about the scriptures and how this had a positive impact on him. Also at Deuteronomy 6:6,7 we have the principle to teach children at all possible times about God and the Bible. Psalm 127:4 states: “Like arrows in the hand of a mighty man, so are the sons of youth.” Children are thus likened to arrows that should be accurately aimed at the target. An archer can never recall an arrow once it leaves his bow. Parents have “arrows”—their children—for only a comparatively brief period of time. That time should be used to instill godly principles in the mind and heart of their children".- For further information you can look at www.jw.org and the August 15,2013 Watchtower pages 15-17.

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DonQuixote
Bible says it well and well quoted. In real life what about the two extremes quoted in the question?
The bible says 'thou shalt not kill' But we kill in thousands. 'thou shalt mot bear false witness' But lying is part of diplomacy. and so forth
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Many of the above comments wouldn't be possible without basic understanding of religion, but as you can see, there's a hearty bunch responding and critiquing and arguing and explaining. I think it makes for interesting debate. My kids as well as myself all got religious educations, we can hold our own because we have basic knowledge of what people are talking about. We can carry on an intellectual discussion and understand what's being said. And none of us are religious. I love the Benediction (Create in me a clean heart, oh God...) but I told my family when I die, no preacher.

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DonQuixote
1; Any difference between 'basic' and 'fundamental'?

2; I somehow like the 'no preacher' bit. It's simple 'from ash to ash' or 'dust to dust' is all that's needed brother/sister:)
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BrotherObscura

you shouldn't. you should let them feel out for what they will begin to develope beliefs for. you can practice a religion but make sure that there is a little room for them to go of and go for what they believe in later not just what you train them for

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DonQuixote
I took my pension child to see one of those 'Nativity' setting arkwork in venerable place. listen to these and I actually got embarrassed.

'Dad those toys are cool'
'Yak those animals have stinky breath'
'Look Peter Pan's fairy'
I wished I had done something earlier
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Accidentally staring. :/ I agreed with the first sentence.
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More common is the fact that few become saved late in life because the lies of Satan seem to take hold on them and their beliefs are turned upside down, in other words the opposite of the truth found in the word of God. I think small children should be read the children's Bible by someone who loves the Lord very much and who understands the word so if there are questions they can be answered. Sunday School is good but make sure they are teaching the whole truth. The Full Gospel churches are closer to truth in my opinion. God bless you.

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DonQuixote
I still would like to know the two examples I gave commented on. i.e. early burning out vs. older or non becoming Godly even though they had been out-right the opposite:)
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Or as people gain life experience, your threats of eternal damnation for not believing in an

all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, spaceless, timeless, uncaused, transcendent, personal deity who chose the ancient Jewish desert-dwellers to write down His message on scrolls and then eventually reveal Himself to the rest of us by doing things like turning water into wine, while in the form of His own Son, an ancient Jewish carpenter, who was eventually sacrificed so that He could forgive you for not living up to standards that are impossible for you to live up to ...

are dropped from intelligent consideration, as they should be. Seriously. You believe that paragraph up there is 100% accurate. There is nothing in there you scoff at?
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....Or people learn to think critically and for themselves. Fear compliance is the worst excuse for being close minded, and the worst motivational factor for belief.
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DonQuixote
I think some how I got the message:)

Thanks Nove & shay
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I would be very careful about it because when they develop a mind of their own and if they dont agree with what they hear they will hate everything about going to church.
Thats exactly what happened to me and It sucks.

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DonQuixote
Fine.
Any comment on those never introduced or lately so; outright unacceptable most of their life who find their Godly life later:)
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Share your faith with your child! I have so much love for an aunt who shared her faith with me, and showed me how to pray the rosary. She had cancer and was very brave and had so much faith and love! She was a blessing to me as were my many german aunts and grand parents also. Faith is a gift and we must share our gifts!

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DonQuixote
Excellent answer.
Any suggestions if one starts when they are 21 years?
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It would never work. By 21, if they hadn't already forced their credulousness wide open long ago, such ridiculous claims would find it impossible to take hold.
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Don I would attend Mass. i would take the fall classes going on now at the catholic church to explore the faith. The sacraments are so very dear to my heart! its all free and the catholic church does not try to steal sheep
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DonQuixote
Thanks King wing:)
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That depends on their level of maturity. When you feel they can make their own decisions you can teach them about your beliefs, and hopefully some other beliefs too. If they choose to follow a belief on their own at an appropriate age, they are more likely to stick with it and be more loyal to it.

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DonQuixote
A solid helper not little:)
Are you saying start early regardless of the future trend or later is more likely to last?
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Awww shucks.... And about that, no. I'm saying to teach the child about multiple religions at a young age, with an open mind. Then when your child is maybe 14-17 you teach them more about your beliefs.
I was taught to be overly religious since I was born and that did nothing but convince me that what I had been taught is nonsense. If the child/teen commits to a belief when they are at an age where they can decide critically they will more likely stick to this belief and be true to it.
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DonQuixote
Solid &got it

Thanks
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my family started brainwashing me after i was born so you decide if you want to limit your child's ability to see the world in different way's

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DonQuixote
Interesting .
Might you be one of those that burnt out or are is the brain still spotless clean:)
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Getting burned out is what cleansed his brain.
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for dnquixote i don't get it
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DonQuixote
I think ravenevan got me despite the English mistake I had made ('are' was to be deleted) and his answer is laud and clear:)
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I think when one is a child. Although, remember when they grow up they will develop their own understanding of their faith. I was introduced at an early age, but the difference is I wasn’t brainwashed like some people, instead I was just read stories to and attended Church. Every1 is an individual though, so it is ultimately up to them to exercise whatever they have been taught.

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DonQuixote
Good.

In other words the said example 'isn't burnt out' the other just sees light and shouts 'Alleluia'.
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If you wait until they are 7 years old, you will almost certainly find they will look at you like you are completely mad.

No matter how you tell them, they will hear this:-

Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

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Great synopsis of Christianity
you must be a theologian.
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JakeKochert

I think you should let them think for themselves

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My friend was introduced at 7 and she is so faithful I think she will never turn back. No matter what age when you encounter curtain things it's hard to turn away from God. Many adults covert so any age should be okay as long as the are open to it and willing to let it in.

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We have no chance for true peace in this world until people stop teaching their children religion. There are no more cruel, war-mongering books than religious books like the bible/Koran, etc.

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Teach by your personal example.
From the time of its birth treat your child--and all people--with loving respect.
When you demonstrate your own goodness and your own faith, the child's will follow.

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