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do most American support obamacare? how about those middleclass?

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No, only one third of U.S citizens support it.

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none should support it at all.
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Obamacare is stupid.

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That's the best way to say it?.
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Yes it is.
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ACA is the same plan in place in Mass. And 98.5% of citizens of Mass. have insurance under the plan, and 95% are very happy with it. ACA is a GOP plan, but since Obama supported it, now they think it's terrible.
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Ha that's intrusting.
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obummer
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I am seeing something interesting here when I compare all the comments above against Obamacare to the one comment in favor. The latter has information, while the formers seem to all be about schoolyard taunting and name-calling. That seems to be a trend in other places as well.
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Once again we mean no offence. And I think we are far from name calling.
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Stars cal.
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the asker wanted to know what a majority of American's think of it, not what you think
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A majority of Americans support the ACA but dislike obamacare
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isn't it pretty much the same thing?
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That's the whole point... The love what it is, but have been convinced by Faux News to hate "Obamacare."
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Or to put it a different way, there are a lot of people who hate anything with the name "Obama" attached to it, while the Affordable Care Act seems much more positive to them (even though both are two names for the same thing).
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A pole by CNN asked if people supported "ACA" and less than 37% percent said yes
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@vLego: The most recent CNN poll I found is at http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/10/21/rel12a.pdf and it shows that as off the latest polling on Oct. 18-20, 41% favor and 56% oppose. However, on page 6 of that report, of the 56% who oppose Obamacare, 12% oppose it because it isn't liberal enough rather than being too liberal (they're mad that we didn't get a single-payer plan). So if you take that 12% out, then it's 41% in favor and 44% oppose for being too liberal. Another way to look at the polling numbers would be to add that 12% of single-payer folks to the 41% favorable for a total of 53% who think Obamacare is not too liberal versus 44% who think it is. Fun with polling numbers. You can get pretty much anything you want out of them.
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CNN is a dem tool. Truth is more than 65% of US CITIZENS are against Obama care. There are tools on this site who work for dem PR teams. (no joke insider info that will never make the news. look at there answers there are around 6people on ask alone.) If Obama care is so good then why dont any of these politicians have it themselves? I am a non declared voter so forget the left and right. Currently Pres Obamas approval rating is nearing Bushes. Terrorism is worst, debt is worse and its all from Bush from 5 years ago or 7 if you count the last 2 years of Bushes Presidency when the dems had congress and the senate. Watch for the lies, and check the attacks on my comment.
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thats correct Dan. Anyone that wants Obamacare is for Communism because we are heading that way and Obamacare is the first step of it.
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God I hope not

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The USA is going to hell in a hand basket... And it seems like most of the world was already headed that way...
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It's an -drum roll- Obama-nation
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Yup...
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Pretty much. He needs to be impeached for this reason: Obamacare not only is unconstitutional but illegally bypasses Congress, infringes on states’ rights and marking an unprecedented and unauthorized expansion of IRS power.
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I have yet to meet someone that supports Obamacare..

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And I hope you don't meet someone who does.
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I hope so too.. that would be the end of me. lol
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I support it... and so do hundreds of thousands of others.
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Meet ME....... I support Obama care!
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Me too
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You just met someone.
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Me also, and you didn't even have to leave your house...
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Fifty-eight percent of the country supports it. I guess you don't get out much. I support it as well.
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hey nero
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Me, too. Yikes, Xaii!! Run for the hills! The sky is falling!
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Wow that's a sad picture.
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I have a friend that it helps her daughter immensely. Her daughter is a special needs person and they want $60k/year to insure her and will not cover any pre-existing conditions. Which is pretty much everything for her. So for the first time in her adult life she can get insurance.

I have no problem with this aspect of it. I was under the assumption that the ACA was to prevent the insurance companies from treating people that way. I was lead to believe it was to reform the insurance companies and not penalize the US citizens.
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What you fail to understand is that unless the broad segment of healthy people also enroll in health insurance, the insurance companies cannot afford to insure those such as you mention. The elimination of pre-existing conditions requires a much larger enrolled healthy group of citizens. The idea is not to penalize US citizens, but to allow the system to be financially viable. Note that in other countries with National Healthcare, you are "penalized" by paying for this healthcare as part of your taxes.. If there was no national healthcare, taxes could be lower. Same difference.. except in this case if someone wants to be excluded from the insurance, there has to be some sort of penalty, or everyone would delay the insurance until they were seriously sick.
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@Gatorblu: Nothing is free. The insurance industry is reformed with the ACA. They can no longer deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions and other minimum standards they must now meet. Certainly the government can subsidize those who cannot afford to pay, but the fact is to get the reforms which are helping your daughter, those additional costs must be paid by others -- like me. I'm good with that. I have no problem spending more money so that others do not suffer, and even die, simply because they don't have enough money. I, and many others, see health care as a right, and providing access to that right falls well within the government's charter to "provide for the general welfare".

Once the Republicans realize Obamacare is here to stay, then, hopefully, we will see the type of non-partisan collaboration necessary to make it better as we saw with Social Security and Medicare.
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I believe that it should be repealed. It is a mess. INSTEAD, both parties should work together on a NEW bill. one that can actually help people, and doesnt force people to buy things and penalize them if they don't. I think all we need to do is make healthcare companies more country-wise, as to increase competition and thus drive down prices. Not some nationalized mess that no one knows who will ensnare
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I have waited for 50 years for ANY sort of support for national healthcare. If the GOP gets their way, we could wait for another 100 years for another chance. While ACA isn't perfect (after all it is a GOP program) it is the best chance we have. So if we repeal it, the GOP has NO plan to replace it with. This is NOT nationalized healthcare. All of it is supplied through private insurance companies. Do yourself a favor and listen to something else in addition to Faux News.
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My "ignorance" is net only with ignorance. I smirk through my grimace at your crude assumptions. I don't even watch Fox, msn is actually my homepage. But the government is interfering with my plans, raising my rates (one woman's was raised from $600-$900), and creating it's own system whose website doesn't even work. That was supposed to be the easy part! The required amount of healthy people to subscribe to pay off this mess will not be met for quite some time.
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Spot on Bam!
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Of course not. "Only a sith (or an idiot) deals in absolutes). there are middle grounds man! and alternate solutions. Charities, communities, and friends, they all support those in need better than any mechanical government program. There are other ways to solve this problem! But instead of using their heads they shove through with prethought undeveloped gunk. People cannot be refused treatment, if they cannot afford it then there are always other alternative ways. Additionally I rarely trust polls because so much is influenced by who is aked and how the questions are phrased.
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and then there is this issue:
21222195-obama-administration-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance
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We will get thru the glitches and problems just like we did with Medicare Part D, and people will like and accept it. If we could only get back that $24 Billion Dollars that was just wasted to prove a point....hmmmm
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The issue with that statement is that Medicare was at least bipartisan. Not One republican voted for it. So not only is it not bipartisan, it is virtually unchecked by an outside eye. So no, I don't think people will learn to love it, unless you mean Stockholm Syndrome
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Medicare was and is opposed by republicans. They just didn't have the cajones to vote against the interests of senior citizens because they were afraid of losing their vote. Basically, republicans hate any government program that helps anyone but the rich. Can anyone have any doubt that republicans don't want to get rid of Welfare, Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Unemployment Insurance and even public education in addition to other social programs.
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Don't forget Meals On Wheels....back a few years ago republicans use to help deliver those meals to the needy and the shut ins.... my how things have changed with the far right extremists....lol
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Tell you what. When my mom volunteered with Meals on Wheels for years. She did the cooking. When she got old and needed help, Meals on Wheels basically told her to go to hell. I even got in touch with her Republican State Senator to ask if she would help get mom on the MOW list. Well, that senator told me to get help from my mom's church. Mom wasn't affiliated with any church, so there was no help there. The senator said she would keep on the case. I never heard back from her. Every time I called her, I got the run around from her staff.
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Shameless...
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I can guarantee you that any senator would do the exact same thing. The harsh reality is that no one really cares unless it gets them a vote.
b Medicare and many of those programs are not "opposed by Republicans", most just want reform. And such views as "Basically, republicans hate any government program that helps anyone but the rich" are not only boldface lies but also reveal a deeper ignorance that only most people posess. Since I am a republican, and quite enjoy medicare, medicaid, and public education (I went there any my children will as well), then that statement is proven wrong off the bat. If you wish to make generalizations like that perhaps say "congressional republicans", and maybe then we'll have an actual argument insteal of just fact checking.
If, indeed, they do oppose those programs, it is certainly not for the reasons you presume. MY reasoning for example is that they are badly managed nd in actuality do very little to get people back on their feet. I would not "get rid of" such programs, but reform them. Maybe dismiss a few, but mostly reform
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Sorry. Republicans oppose the programs I've mentioned. Reform to them means paving the way to the destruction of the social welfare net. Republican actions are responsible for so much waste in government social programs they should just change their name to Wasticans. They do everything they can to hamper social programs. Sometimes this means that they set up roadblocks through legislation that inhibit one social program from working in tandem with another program thus causing inconvenience, a greater rate of failure and higher cost. All of this is done in order to make social programs less successful and more unpalatible to citizens. The process is so cynical and vile that any fair minded American that stopped to think about it could never support a republican for office.
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Well put @wheelhorseman, and yet they will line up to give tax breaks to the richest in the country. Did you others understand that the 10 biggest corporations in the US paid NO income taxes last year? Were they ALL oppressed?
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The top two percent of the population pays upwards of 70% of all taxes. Maybe they can afford it, but they earned that money, why should it be taken away?
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@vLegolasv, it's not just "amount" paid, it's also %paid... What marginal tax bracket are you in? 35%? Just consider, there are 15 hedge fund managers in Manhattan that together made 40 Billion (with a B) dollars in income, but paid no more than 15% (and less) in taxes... So they paid a high "amount" but a low percentage. So are you saying 'cause they paid a large "amount" that their taxes should be even lower? Even though you may pay up to 35% of your income? The rich are very good at positioning how "much" they pay in taxes. But I remember in the time of Dwight Eisenhower, the highest marginal tax rate was 95%... under that Republican President and Congress. But they still managed to get richer and richer, didn't they? But we build the interstate highway system, paid for the returning vetrans college educations, and started off the biggest boom of economic growth in this countries history.
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Well said, BAM!
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Stars bam!!!
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I love Eisenhower, and I agree taxes on the rich are a little too low, but why is it just because they are successful, they now have to carry everyone else? It teaches people that even if you work hard, get a good job, do everyhting right, you still dont have a chance. And I do not understand why you think the amount is unimportant. its not like because they make more money they cost more for the government to maintain and should therefore be taxed more. If anything, they are beneficial to society! If the top 2% of our country paid 95% if their income to taxes right now, there would either be no deficit, or the government would waste their money elsewhere
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The richest have benefited the most from the infrastructure that we have all paid for. Therefore they should pay the most. The government has a role in income distribution in our nation because when only a few have almost all the money instability in the economy and eventually in the security of the nation occurs. How long does anyone think it will take before the abused middle class and working poor decide they have nothing to lose by exerting their power against those that hold us down and redistribute the wealth we create to the rich? How long? Does the rich elite really think that they can buy enough security to defend themselves from great hordes of the unwashed? There does not have to be as great an income disparity as the right tries to fool us into thinking is necessary to maintain an incentive to do better. That old myth of the right belongs in the garbage with the rest of the lies their handlers sell them.
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@vLego: I for one am quite aware of the extra tax burden of the wealthy, but it does not discourage me from trying to improve my economic status. Obviously, the rich are not discouraged either since, regardless of the great amount they were taxed in the past or the low amount they are taxed now, they still seem to keep striving to become richer, and generally are successful at attaining that goal.
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To all that support Obamacare, GO TO HELL AND NEVER RETURN. YOU ARE ALL BRAINWASHED BECAUSE EVERYTHING OBAMA SAID HAS NEVER, I REPEAT (and I want this word in bold) NEVER, HAPPEN.
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bry, while I appericiate the enthusiasm and effort, unfortunately statements like that are counterproductive.

wheel, The government's only purpose, as set forth by our founding fathers, is to protect its citizens. Anything else is not right. I agree that many programs set in place are good, SS, Medicare, etc, but meddling in the personal affairs of its citizens is unjust Frankly it should not matter to anyone how much someone makes. That is a form of discrimination! Just because someone has figured out how to be sucessful, through work ethic, natural ability, or ambition, does not provide ample grounds for /punishment/. And I cannot understand why people would instead of wanting to be /like them/ would rather want to impoverish everyone. Theres room at the top, but people would rather... whine I suppose.

Cal, I'm not saying the burden is too heavy, I dont think it is. But of course they want to become richer. doesnt everyone?
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vleg,
You need to read the Constitution and understand it. It also helps to understand the reasons for writing the Constitution. One reason was because the far more conservative Articles of Confederation failed to meet the needs of a growing nation. The founders wanted a central government with far more power than the Articles gave them. They wanted larger government. Not smaller government. The Constitution gives the government vast powers through Article 1, Section 8.

No one figures out how to make a lot of money without exploiting the efforts of many others. If those others are not being paid fairly for the wealth they produce, then there is fundamental unfairness in the system and the seeds of revolution will surely sprout. Yes, EVERY working person deserves the value of the wealth they produce. And our government should not be helping the rich steal from the middle class and working poor.
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Well said, Wheelhorseman.
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Take a bow Horseman, star!
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There's nothing that gets me quite so riled up as the idea that rich people all earned their wealth alone through the sweat of their brows with no contribution from anyone else. Millions of working Americans have died, been injured and otherwise abused so that a few overpaid creeps can prance around pretending to great men and women. Yes, some are great. Most are thieves and lucky.
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Super stars!
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Fine, then punish the rich for their crimes. Take away their wealth, and see who else's wealth goes away just as quickly. I am no huge proponent of "trickle down" but I believe the vice versa is true. They have the right to be luck. To be a thief? no, but we have police for that, as has been pointed out. If you are not wealthy it is nobody's fault but your own. I know its my fault. I worked hard when I could have worked harder. I was smart when I could have been smarter. But such is life. Its a sad truth that few have the stones to live with.

The original idea of a confederacy was to have no central government (that is what a confederacy is). This is little more than what the Ancient Greeks had set up and any historian can tell you that failed. The necesity for a central government compromise was born out of the need for something to tie all of the states together. So that instead of each making their own wars, possibly on each other, they must go through approval by all states. A1 S8and 10 define what powers they have as a congress. Not with more power, but as little as possible as to stay away from the powerful monarchy they rebelled from. As to not be like them, because they knew it did not work. And that is all well and good, but it still does not give the government power into personal lives and coices that do not affect others

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Of course it has nothing to do with punishing the rich. That's where the righties get it all wrong. They don't appreciate that the rich by in large have gotten their great wealth on the back of their employees and on the backs of the middle class American taxpayers. We are the ones punished by working at wages that do not represent the value of the wealth we produce. We are the ones punished because of the government handouts to the rich through subsidies and tax breaks to their businesses.

Yes, there are police. And who do they lock up? Do they lock up the perpetrators of the largest crimes against us like bush's depression? No.

One doesn't have to be a criminal to be rich. I never said they did.

Article 1 Section 8

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; ...

Do you know what the General Welfare is? Who determines what it is? We, through our government and the bounds of the Constitution. That's who. And if there is a dispute as to who is right or wrong on an issue the Constitution gives the Supreme Court the authority to decide. They have cases every year. Our history demonstrates that the Constitution is a living document, despite what one Supreme Court Justice thinks. The Court's decisions show by in large that the founders wanted a strong federal government that would allow the people to use it to solve big problems that either couldn't or weren't being solved by the private sector. Such is the case with health care in America.

The government should not intrude on personal lives. But it can and should be intruding on the "life" of corporations to make sure they are not abusing the private lives of each and every American just because those coporatations and their rich owners want to take every penny they can manage to steal from the American people. Yes, we do have the right to intrude on coporations. They are not people.
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Stars Horseman...makes me want to stand on top of the table and make a speech!! ;)
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Stars @Wheelhorseman... you got another follower. I was coming to say something similar, but not as eloquent, so will leave it as yours. I loved the congressional meeting with Liz Warren, taking the Justice Department to task for not arresting, trying, and convicting the wall street thieves after 5 years.
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Thank you, Lady and Bam. As you can tell, it really gets my goat when people who don't give a damn about the poor, working poor and middle class get all misty eyed and crying about protecting the rich and powerful.
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Its sad that to you that is "eloquent", that was well written, yes, but it did not ring as music. But on more related matters...

You have said much, rather well, I admit, but have said nothing. The first and last paragraph really only deals with the issue. But enough reviewing.

Why do you believe they got it "on the backs of the workers" Its not as though they just steal whatever the workers earn. They have jobs too and they earn them. There are plenty of other people just as willing and cut-throat who hunger for their place. Every company needs a leader, and if they do not do their jobs that is where the board of directors and unions come in. Not the government. I don't feel punished at all by working for someone richer than I. I am glad I actually have a job. Some people invest in the stock market to become rich. Is that off of "the backs of the workers"? Even if some one did get it off of a "worker's back", they still hired that person, and that person has every right to leave and lend his back to someone else.

As for the General Welfare, "This clause, called the General Welfare Clause or the Spending Power Clause, does not grant Congress the power to legislate for the general welfare of the country; that is a power reserved to the states through the Tenth Amendment. Rather, it merely allows Congress to spend federal money for the general welfare. The principle underlying this distinction—the limitation of federal power—eventually inspired the only important disagreement over the meaning of the clause."-Legal-Dictionary.com.
Federal Limitation. I rest my case for now

As for corperations not being people, since at least "Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward" – 17 U.S. 518 (1819), the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized corporations as having the same rights as natural persons in the eyes of the law. If you feel you are being mistreated and "abused" by a corperation, then simply do not purchase the product that business is selling. The thing about capitalism is that the buyer has power.
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354:1 is the current CEO to worker pay ratio...
Since 1978, CEO pay at American firms has risen 725%, more than 127 times faster than worker pay over the same time period, according to data from the Economic Policy Institute.
Also, data suggests that CEOs are rewarded for laying off employees. A 2009 report by the Institute for Policy Studies (albeit a left-leaning think tank) showed that CEOs who reduced their employee ranks by the greatest number, took home 42% more compensation than the year?s average chief executive pay for S&P 500 companies.
Cash reserves at American businesses are the largest in history, while hiring remains stagnant.
Nuff said
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Spot on Boo
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Right you are Boo. It is illustrative of the greed of business that their cash reserves have been enhanced by borrowing and stashing the money away instead of creating all those jobs conservatives said buisiness would create. Business is borrowing the money and stashing it away because the interest rates are at historically low rates and they see no reason to allow this money to get to those in need or to small start ups that would create jobs. No big business, large corporations to be exact, are sucking up the money and hording it.

vLego, do YOU think corporations should have all the rights and protections of natural persons in the eyes of the law? Well, the fact is, they don't. That 1819 ruling has be modified over the years. However, corporations still have too many rights. Their have been a few bad Supreme Court rulings over the years. Some recently. I think you'll see the expansion of corporations' rights decline in years to come.

You seem to worship the rich. It's just so sad. You look at how our economy has changed over the years with a higher and high percentage of the wealth going to the rich and you think that's a good thing. You denegrate the middle class and working poor by insisting that this redistribution of wealth is so how a good course for our economy. Let the great hords of the unwashed be damned. Let their hard work go unrewarded. Let them work in unsafe conditions. But government don't you dare touch the wealth of the powerful and rich. Don't you dare take any action that would hinder large corporations' exploitation of the populace. But keep those subsidies coming in to big oil and other large corporations. They are so weak, they are so in need of government support and intervention on their behalf.

I particularly despise your suggestion that somehow if you work hard enough in America you will get rich. The opposite is true. The people that work the hardest are almost all on the bottom of the pay scale. Statistics show that America has one of the lowest
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rates of Social Mobility among western nations. Sweeden has a higher rate of social mobility for goodness sake. People like you hate the American way of life and everything that is good about this nation. You're all ready to sell it off to the highest bidder and then turn around and hand the money right back to them. Sick.
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The American way of life is to become the best you can be. that you can come here poor and become rich. If you honestly think that no matter how hard you work you cannot become wealthy in time, well, all I can say is that probably reflects your personal status. THAT, is unamerican.

I do not worship the rich, I myself am in the middlest of the middle class. So of course I would not support anything that would hurt myself, times as fragile as they are. I fully support worker's rights. We do indeed need regulation, obviously, but There is a point where it is not just workers' safety as it is communistic. You are also a little contradictory as you state that you think hard work should be rewarded (as I have always stated I support) yet you say that it is impossible for hard work to be rewarded. I want all to be treates as equals. Taxed the same, treated the same. Sure, government should keep their hands off the wealth of the rich, but also the wealth of the middle class, and those who have no wealth. The thing you people seem to get confused with, is that we and I do not "only like the rich", we and I are just the only ones who advocate their rights as well as everyone else. I care not about subsidies to big oil. I too think they have unfair leverage, but it is through their buyout of politicians, both sides.

I do not understand why you say "even Sweden", because, after all, they even have a much better education sytem than us. That is probably why they have higher SM rates. If your people would stop ruining ours... ha-ha.

That last outright insult I take no offense at, entirely because it is not true. I have stated many times that I love America, and way of life. That way has been the way until only relatively recently, most notable the 60's and 70's when a lot of disgruntled young self named Democrats took to the streets in protest. Apparently their way is the "American" way to you.
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@vLego: It is easy for us middle class folk to sit here and say the American Dream is available to all if one just works hard enough. But I look at those doing stoop labor from sunrise to sunset on corporate farms, those guys pushing tar on roofs and roadways in 100 degree heat, and women working two and three jobs plus taking care of a family just to make ends meet, that know they work harder that either of us ever have (and certainly harder than any hedge fund manager), yet they will never have what we have. The American Dream is not for everyone. It can't be. The American Dream requires that their be winners and losers -- no matter how hard people work.

The definition of "the American Way" is different for everyone, depending on their perspective. You apparently define it as the status quo prior to the Vietnam era. Having been active in protests during that time, the Vietnam era has significantly informed my idea of the American Way. To me the American Way is to rise up in indignation for what one believes in, even it runs afoul of the tyranny of the majority. There are people suffering in this country, and if the government doesn't help them, they have no one to stand up for them.
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You see things clearly Caltex...I agree
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I agree Cal, I do. But I truly believe that even those in those positions can get somewhere. The tar pusher can become supervisor and advance, as can they all. For the mothers I'm sure they can do the same plus charities to help.


I agree that the minority view is important. Our Constitution is also adament about the rights of the few. But I do not believe those suffering need government help. Maybe they do need aid in some form, which I have no doubt some do, but I do not feel it is the government's place to do so. They cannot afford it, and as Thomas Jefferson once said, "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
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So you will not be availing yourself of Social Security and Medicaid when you are older? If you loose your job, you will not apply for unemployment benefits? And for that matter, you will not have automobile insurance because your premiums are going to pay for drivers who have accidents while you may never need to file a claim?
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And of course, you would never go to the ER or a hospital unless you can pay ALL of the costs, because that would mean the rest of us have to pay for it? And if your house by the ocean is washed away, you would not file a claim with FEMA or for flood insurance because you didn't pay the full value? Reminds me, what was your education? Did you go to elementary school? High school? Public college? Ever use a library? Need blood from a blood bank?
You know, Taker kind of stuff that you don't believe in.
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v you said, "If you honestly think that no matter how hard you work you cannot become wealthy in time". Of course that is not what I said and it is typical of the right to distort what those they disagree with say. Please read my words in context and you will understand that what you suggest is a lie.

You go on to say, "yet you say that it is impossible for hard work to be rewarded." I did not say that either. More lies v.

And you say, "government should keep their hands off the wealth of the rich, but also the wealth of the middle class" But they don't keep their hands off the wealth of the middle class and working poor. Through tax advantages and subsidies, legislation and the awarding of contracts, the government has, through the richs' ability to lobby as no middle class person can, weasaled their way into the purses of the middle class and working poor.

It's easy to understand why Sweden has a better education system. Unlike the conservatives in our country, the Swedes know the value of education and are not making draconian cuts to their education programs.

Taking to the streets to protest is part of the American way. Using one's wealth to avoid the public spotlight and weasal into the system like a bunch of rats is most certainly not the American way.
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Wheel, To clear up your denying, you stated (since we are playing the citation game)"I particularly despise your suggestion that somehow if you work hard enough in America you will get rich. The opposite is true." Unless my public education has failed me, I think I read it correctly. Even if I misread, that is not , as you so eagerly point out, a "lie". It would be unintentional misinformation. But, it is neither of these. I am all for public education, I donty think anyone in their right mind doesnt know the "value of education." I am against cuts to education. Actually the biggest drain on a school's budget is all of the money being paid to teachers and for the rest of their lives due to the Teacher's Union. Now before you run off, I of course support unions, but lately they have become less than helpful and are actually a hinderance to a school. If you look deeper, you will find there are issues other than funing that are causes for discontent among education. People like Michelle Obama have been editing how things are run (not just lunches, though that situation is also bad), and unfortunately it is there that the problem lies, not in the money but in the method.

I actually said government should keep its hands off of the wealth of everyone, and you pointing out they are not neither contradicts my views nor adds to them. I am no supporter of what the rich do in congress, I feel they should be taxed equally, no evasion.

I of course support protest as well, I was merely saying that they had views I disagreed with. but I do disagree with weaseling
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Bam and Cal, while politically opposed to the principles of SS and Medicare and Medicaid, I conceed that they do in fact aid many people, and is a working example as to why we have both parties working together to create good, working laws that make compromise. And, as I have been required to pay into them all of my life, I would be a blundering idiot to even consider not collecting.

As for some of the other things like insurance and going to the ER, that is what buying insurance is for. If I could afford to pay everything for the ER I wouldnt have insurance. And the same with automotive. But, that is not GOVERNMENT, that is a private industry providing a product. But such things are optional... oh wait, not anymore.

As for my education, I attended public school before going to a private college. Yes I have gone to a library, and as I said before, I support public education of the public. But I also support the OPTION to go to a private school or museum.
As for a blood bank, come on. That is a charity. I am all for charity. You choose to donate blood so others can use it. Key word: Choose.

As for my house near the sea, I would not be so foolish. But I can see that it was just an example. But again, I bought the product of flood insurance, and it is mine to use if I did in fact buy it. And as with FEMA, I need not support it to take advantage of the fact that it is already in place. But I do support it. I support programs that provide aid during natural disasters since whole commnities can be destroyed, rich and poor alike need aid.
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@Lego: The ACA is not a program which provides insurance through the government. Health care insurance is still provided through insurance companies who compete amongst themselves for customers. The only thing that has changed is that people need to pay their way when they need health care. That was not happening before for a number of reasons -- none of which are legitimate reasons to deny health care because of inability to pay for it, or to put the full burden of their health care on others. The government is chartered with providing for the general welfare, and the ACA fits into that charter.
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v Again you distort and contort and conive. Here is the full context: "I particularly despise your suggestion that somehow if you work hard enough in America you will get rich. The opposite is true. The people that work the hardest are almost all on the bottom of the pay scale." Your distortion is deliberate. All the words are in my comment, you chose to pick and choose.

"Actually the biggest drain on a school's budget is all of the money being paid to teachers and for the rest of their lives due to the Teacher's Union." OK. I note your support for unions that comes after this statement. Teachers have one of the most thankless jobs you can have as a professional. They are despised by many and blamed for every problem the kids they teach have. They deserve to be paid well and before they unionized they were very poorly paid. The fact that they will receive a pension is not bad. We should all be getting pensions after years of service. It should also be noted that many teachers have to buy supplies for their students because BOE has cut funds. This phenomenum is so well known that there is actually a tax deduction that teachers can take for supplies they buy for their students. Funding cuts are just part of the greed of the rich. They want their tax cuts and they will steal from you and me and from the poor and from children so that they can get more.

Funding has been cut since at least the bush years. An interesting pont for republicans looking forward to voting for Chris Christie in the 2016 presidential primaries: he actually cost the State of New Jersey $400 million dollars in federal grants for schools. The man is politically astute but as wasteful and ignorant a NJ governor as I have ever seen.
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Cal, I know that. I know how this law works. And I am against the madatory requirements that must now be included everyone's plan. As well as FORCING everyone to buy what is only a product! Having health insurance is not a given right! Beig cared for, yes. But again, health insurance is a product being sold buy a company. and now everyone HAS to buy it.

And another thing, I am getting tired of this misnomer that people are being denied "Healthcare". Nobody is denied healthcare! If you walk into any hospital in these United States you will be treated, no matter what. Whether or not you can afford it is your own business. WHat is being denied is again "insurance", which is again a product. And as a business, it is their right (I do not necesarrily support this in this instance, however) to deny whoever they want from being a customer.

Also, I believe I have stated this before, but the FEDERAL government is not chartered with such. According to the Constitution the states are in charge of General Welfare, and the Federal is in charge of the states. It was their intention that the Central govt have as little to do with their personal lives as possible. And "General Welfare" is so characterized as such programs as fire departments, police, laws, post, etc. Nowhere does it mention insurance. Now mind you insurance was in fact around during that time, yet didnt quite make the cut.
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wheel, I agree teachers deserve good pay, they do have tough jobs. I agree much of the blame is shifted on them in recent years, and that should be fixed. It is an issue with the newer generations and their parents and those in charge that nowadays when a child comes home with a bad grade the teacher is held accountable and not the student. I almost wish my kids could attend a system of an earlier age, when people had some sense of responsibility. The educational system is a complete mess today and neither party is completely to blame.
But, my father being on the local school board, he and I have firsthand knowledge of how unreasonable the unions of today can be. Squabbling over illogical and fabricated infractions, demanding benefits that the school cannot afford, demanding tenures and benefits until the day a retired teacher dies. And now they are being paid (I believe it is called) Cadillac funds(?) in appeasement over ACA
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The right wing nuts call the teachers' health benefits Cadillac Insurance. It's a term that can be lumped in with the likes of Reagan's "welfare Queen". Like I said before, it's the way the right divides the middle class and poor from each other so that they don't present a combined threat to the theivery of the rich.

I know about unions, too. I'm in one and over the last 15 years we have given back, given back, given back to "management" much more than we have gotten. But the right wing whiners want more and more and more from us to go to the rich. Our economic problems are not equaly the blame of conservatives and liberals. You can clearly lay blame at the door of the right. We have been living under conservative policies since Reagan. Even our so called liberal presidents Clinton and Obama are no further left than a moderate republican of the 1960's. The idea that liberals and conservatives are equally to blame for our woes is wrong and offensive.
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@vLegolasv, you should also get an opinion from the Union side on ACA. There is no "automatic" Cadillac policy, and in fact, most of these policies are being cancelled, as well as requiring a separate "fee" for every member of the union for a startup fee. Plus other annual fees. The Unions certainly don't consider that the ACA is giving them "appeasement." Ask a Union rep what they think, then cover your ears.
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v said "health insurance is a product being sold buy a company. and now everyone HAS to buy it. "

Health insurance is no more a product than national security is a product. How many tens of billions of dollars do we pay for our military? Does every American want a military? Why do they all have to pay for it? Where is my freedom? It has been taken away.
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Wheel... I was having doubts about my assessment that you are a critical thinker, debater, and this has kind of crossed that line. You clearly are a blind believer, and unfortunately, I will no longer be taking you as seriously as I do your compatriots. I am sorry to say this.

Besides, the military provides a service for multiple people which does a deed on behalf of the government defending from foreign powers. The purpose of a government IS to uphold such armies to protect its citizens. The trade off of living within a country is that they offer you protection and in exchange you pay taxes and abide by their laws. Health insurance is completely different. It is a product/service offered by private companies who maintain prices due to competition and quality. But of course you know all this, the concept you seem to struggle with is that if it is sold buy a company then it is in essence a product. And as a product, the consumer actually has control over it in a capitalist system

Bam, I should clarify, I have read that such Cadillac polies were in place, but under Obamacare they were to be cut. Unions were upset by this, so they threw in some legislation to protect them to save a vote. I am on the fence about the credibility of this information, but I have no reason to doubt it.
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@vLegolasv, just remember that this was the GOP solution, proposed by a GOP think tank, and implemented by a GOP governor. I, and many others would have preferred a single-payer system like an expanded Medicare, and like every other first-world economy in the world. This compromise was done as the ONLY way to get ANY healthcare improvements at all. So now when the GOP says that this terrible plan has to be expunged, remember it's their plan, and they STILL don't have any suggestion for a solution except to go back to the way it was, with 40 MILLION people with NO health insurance, and incipient medical bankruptcy with every illness.

Yeah, I don't like this plan.. But it is a thousand times better than no plan at all.
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I heartily second BAM's comment.
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Hey folks, I really appreciate the commentary in this line of comments. I don't agree completely with any of them, but there are lots of very good suggestions, comments, and positions. This has been a good experience, and no-one died in the process.
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Agreed -- except maybe brymarshall14. Judging from his/her last post 9 days ago, he/she may have had a coronary.
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v I'm grateful for your assessment of me. Because it proves you are guilty of the very lack of critical thinking you accuse me of having. You don't understand US history, you don't understand the justification for government expansive involvement in health care, you don't understand that Obamacare's basic structure is a conservative plan, you don't understand how the rich are exploiting everyone from the middle class to starving children in America. Then you boldly proclaim that I am the one that lacks critical thinking. You're blinded, not me. You can walk through the streets of America and miss every bit of evidence of the plight of most Americans. So intoxicated by the propaganda of your "betters" are you that you can only parrot the lessons they give you. Critical thinking?! You don't know the meaning of the term.

The ACA provides a service. It does not provide a product. Private insurers provide the product. The government should provide the insurance because the private insurers have demonstrated their inability to do it for a large percentage of Americans. Now, if it was insurance for people's second homes in flood prone shore areas, I would say the government should be out of that business entirely. But guess what? Republicans don't want the government out of that business because it helps keep their premiums down. No, instead the government should not be involved in health care. I understand the priorities of the rich, of the republicans. You're an apologist for thieves and killers. You may not know that. But you are.
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I have not much further to speak with you, wheelhorseman. You have been successfully angered and thus revealed a petty nature. I understand much. More than you know. Could possibly know. Your assumptions are sad. Once more logic fails your wisdom, and therefore be not so wise. Itis apparant your methodology and exactly what kind of brain resides within you. I will no longer respond to your arguments.


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Bam, thats only half true, really. the systems are similar but clearly one works better than the other. The parts of ACA I am really opposed to are just the unreasonable regulations on what /must/ be in a plan and the fact that now everyone has to buy insurance. If it were just the echanges with minumum requirements at a state based level (as per the "GOP" plan) then maybe I'd be for it. Besides, some people are just going to pay the fine anyway
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@vLego, those parts of the plan are virtually the same as Mass. including the mandating coverage. Would you be happier with the Vermont approach, where they are moving to a full single-payer system with 100% coverge for everyone? And there is no "GOP" plan that has been anything but a sop. The "plan" as you discussed is virtually the same as just abandoning ACA, and would result in many millions uncovered at all, but everyone with insurance would still be paying for them.
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I have been successfully angered? Are you playing some kind of game here? My ire has been raised and maintained on these issues long before prople had computers to tap their views out on. You see, it's not a game to me. It's real because it's about real people, real Americans and their health care. If it's a game to you, I think you must be sadistic. How sick and perverted is the man that plays games with the health of women, men and children.
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bam "The "plan" as you discussed is virtually the same as just abandoning ACA,"

You've got that right and that's what it's all about for them. I'm quite sure the Heritage Foundation wishes they never developed the plan that has become the ACA. But they can't deny they did it now. The fact is that the plan was written to be as beneficial as possible for the insurance industry while appearing to address the needs of the people. This is why we must continue to work off that appearance and make it's false promise a reality. Some of the changes that democrats have made to the Heritage plan have made the ACA a bit better plan and have made for a toe hold on real reform.
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I apologize, I am abandoning my resolution on only day three! To clarify, I am not playing a game with them. I have no say politically in their future, as far as you know. However, I am playing a game, with you. Or rather was... You are clearly very angry now. And I'll leave you to it.
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No, v, I'm not angry except in the manner that I have already described. I'm sorry you lack resolve. But it is not surprising. It is quite expected.
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Oh you /are/ a funny one!
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Ask that question in 2 or 3 months from now. You might get better results. :P

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what does that mean?
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It means that up til now, the lies about ACA have had all of the press, and until Oct.1, no one had a chance to see what it meant for them. People have between now and January to sign up, and the new insurance takes effect Jan 1, 2014.
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Try in a couple of years. The middle class and poor will love it.
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I wholly doubt they will love it
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Yeah, just like they hated Social Security and Medicare... you wish!
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They will hate Obamacare because, and if you watch Fox News, it will destroy all the medical parts of this country and doctors are going to quit their jobs for Obamacare is a stupid law that Clinton tried to passed and FORCE on to everyone.
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Are there any doctors in Mass.? Amazing... because the health plan in Mass. is virtually the same as ACA. How did that happen? How come all of the doctors didn't quit and leave? And what's gonna happen in Vermont, as they are going to a single payer system, and all hospitals will be non-profits. So I guess all of their doctors will move down to Mass?
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I avoid the people like that. They're usually the same ones who try to get you to try this new "E" they got

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Polls vary between 28% to 48% opposed, and between 54% to 70% in favor. It really just depends on which group did the polling and which bias they promote. But the trends show more favoring than opposing.

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You are delirious.
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@clawal, perhaps you might try listening to something else in addition to Faux News.
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Poll by CNN in September showed that only 39% support the bill, 59% of people support "Health care reform", but not the bill
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The same 59% support the specifics of ACA when explained to them... but they don't support "Obamacare." This means they like the law, not the name, which has been defined by Faux News and others..
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CNN... And no, those polled did not necessarily like the certain glimmers of a few good things among the refuse. I don't put much stock in polls in the first place, but CNN's seemed acceptable.
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They were asked if they supported ACA I believe by the way
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Do you really believe CNN. Remember they said it was a movie that caused Bengazi for 10 days while FOX news had it accurate from the beginning. I love the Obama PR lies from some of you. Fill me with more please. lol
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Look for other sources for info stay away from main streem media.
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@Dan1972, Fox hasn't had it accurate on anything for a long time. That doesn't mean the other news channels don't make mistakes, but at least it is assumed they try, in that they didn't go to court to assure that they had the right to lie, or even make up stories, because the are an entertainment channel, not a news channel. Look it up.
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Really? they havent been accurate on anything in a long time? Last time they said it would rain in my area, it did. Aside from the normal, mundane, Fox-bashing, no, I typically do not fully believe any network, but these statistics seemed at least somewhat favourable
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OMG, they said it would rain, and it did? Weather forcasters in Southern Calif could just make a tape loop saying "Warm and clear, with a chance for smog" and play it every day. They would be right 325 days a year. What a concept, a weather report was right ONCE!
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You sir need to learn sarcasm, manners, and how to hold an actual conversation/debate. Fox news is not never right, just as a broken clock is correct twice a day. Just as Every other news channel makes almost as many mistakes. Fox news is the only network to come at things from a conservative view. And while I do not watch it myself, I respect it for that
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Your sooo misinformed. Have you ever looked beyond your party, you know the socialistic comunist party of america, or the future of democrats.. Hey sir, didnt Hitler have free medical for germany. Back to the question, The middle class does not support Break the bank care.
In fact the only ones who do support O care are the hard core supporters of the dems and the poor why should I work people.
Please now no more lies and misinterpritation. Does any business in the world offer a product without testing it first? No, because it could be a doomed product that can destroy a company. Well, I guess alot of hard working middleclass like myself can bail them out again.
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No. They shouldn't support Obamacare because it has many flaws and it will bankrupt the country quicker than Obama spending money before this.

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They said the same thing about Social Security and Medicare. They are two of the most successful and beloved programs in American history and are responsible for keeping our elderly population healthy and out of poverty.
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That is true but Obamacare will bankrupt the country because Obama spends more than he makes and the more that is spent, the more debt we will get into and the more terrorism organisations will come knocking one our door. I don't want that to happen.
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Bryn, please learn that CONGRESS is responsible for our pocketbook, not the prez
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The Congress is not a congress. I'm about to write about how corrupt boo153 is with Obama and the Congress. Congress do... wait for it... NOTHING.
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@bryn, the POTUS cannot spend ANY money that the Congress (starting with the house) does not approve. If you want to get pissed at anyone, start with the Teabaggers in the house.
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Then explain why Obama get $318,000,000 to the Muslim countries without the House and Sentate approval. I tell you why, because they have NO backbone for anything and if they try to impeach him, they would called racist which is fine by me because Obama needs to be impeached.
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It was approved in the budget... if the money is approved, he has some discresion on how to spend it.
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Then here is the proof that Obamacare is not good for the anyone.

Obamacare not only is unconstitutional but illegally bypasses Congress, infringes on states’ rights and marking an unprecedented and unauthorized expansion of IRS power.
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Sorry, wrong. It's been upheld by the Supreme Court as constitutional
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I was wondering when @brymarshall got promoted to uber supreme court to be able to over ride the 9 justices on the supreme court.
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Well then boo153 and bamcintyre, go to Hell with Obamacare is illegal because HE threatened the Rebuplicans to pass it so they can read it. SO THEY CAN READ IT, BECAUSE HE KNEW IF THEY READ IT, THE LAW WOULDN'T GET PASSED. SO EXPLAIN THAT YOU NOOBS.
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Once again, educate yourself. Obama "threatened" congress?? Really?? With what? A spanking or something?
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@brynmarhall, you really need to get an education. There is this thing called the Constitution, that lays out the responsibilities and duties of each branch of government. The Executive Branch can sign or veto legislation.. they can't force legislation on the Congress. Besides, the law WAS a GOP animal, invented by GOP think tanks, and put into action by a GOP governor in a GOP state, with great success, including the individual mandate. The only reason that the GOP hates it is because Obama supported it.
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He said if they wanted to read it before the law has passed, he would make sure that they didn't get re-elected. But YOU TWO ARE BRAINWAHSED. TO HELL WITH BOTH OF YOU BECAUSE OBAMA IS THE WORSE PRESIDENT EVER AND YOU MAKE HIM LOOK GOOD WHEN HE IS THE WORSE PRESIDENT EVER IN AMERICAN HISTORY. AND THE CONSTITUTION IS NOW DESTROYED BECAUSE ODUMBER IS GETTING RID OF FREEDOMS ONE AT A TIME. IF I SEE YOU EVER COMMENT ON MY ANSWERS AGAIN. YOU WILL BE THROWN IN HELL AND BLOCKED FROM ASK BECAUSE YOU CLEARLY DON"T KNOW ANY THING, TO HELL WITH YOU AND OBAMA. HE IS THE WORSE PRESIDENT EVER SO STOP SUPPORTING HIM.
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Bet, please grow up. First, Obama is not the one who said the bill had to be passed so they could see what was in it. Second, Obama could not "threaten" congress with not getting reelected because he doesn't have that kind of power. For 19 you surely have a poor grasp of politics
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And you are brainwashed because Obama is not the president at all because he cheated his way in. Obama care got rid of my insurance and three doctors quit because of Obamacare. They know what is in the bill because they have to know the bill when it is passed. But you are too stupid to understand that because you are brainwashed like the Muslims. And yes he did say that the bill had to be passed so they can read it. The Republicans wanted to know what was in it. Here I though someone would be against Obama. I though wrong because he brainwashed you and bamcintrye. I bet you are both jobless and on a couch waiting for the 'free' money Obama's program is going to give you. Guess what nothing is free. He bought your vote and his if you both wanted the 'free' money. The Republicans wanted to read it and they are going to pass it because they want to know all about it. Search it at google and put Republicans pass Obama's Healthcare law so they can read it.
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Actually @Bry, I have worked my whole life, and until last week was a Republican for 50 years. The big hole in the debt is not Obama, but the GOP, and president's Bush, two wars not paid for, medicare part D not paid for, Billions of tax rebates to oil companies, Huge tax breaks to the 2% richest in the country, and on. Your "grasp" of politics is so clouded by Faux News talking points that attempting to have a discussion with you about it is like trying to explain the economy to a stone. And as far as "freedoms" it was the Bush government that passed the biggest affront to personal freedom this country has seen with the Patriots Act.

And just a personal note... all caps just shows you as infantile and unable to have a cogent thought supported by facts.
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Stars bam!!
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Then you try to explain read Obamacare when it gets passed. It has so many flaws with it. No one is to get it. You can't keep your plan, have the same doctors, and the waiting list will increase to see a doctor for any important needs. My dad waited five years for years for heart transplant. If he was alive and needed that, he will have to wait three MORE years after the law is passed in January. So you know nothing about freedom because Obama is forcing people to have healthcare, getting rid of guns, can't say God in public places for it will offend a Muslim. I don't like that because the two admentments allows us to have have freedom of speech, press, religion, potetion against the government in a non-violent way and right to bear arms. And you can't force anything to anyone. It's like a child, you force it to do something when he is confortable with his life, he will not do it. Obama needs to step down and get away from politics. I don't care what you brainless monkeys say, Obama is the worse president and you are giving him credit for he didn't even get it in the first place. So you need to understand, everything Obama does, it is bad all the time for America. Name me ONE thing that he did for America that IS GOOD? I can't because he wants to 'help' the Muslim Brotherhood by giving 18.8 millions of dollars to them to kill our troops in the Middle East. He doesn't deserve any credit for anything. But do name me one thing that Obama did for this country that is good? I bet you can't name me anything.
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And no. All Caps means I am Angred at both off you idiots for supporting Obama when everything he does for this country is evil.
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Turn off Fox News. It's rotting your brain. Not a blessed thing you believe is real
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It is so upsetting to find that people actually believe the crap they here from the teabaggers and Faux News...There is nothing intrinsically wrong with Islam.. In fact, with several billion believers, they are a larger audience than Christians, with just as much right to their god as you have to yours. OK, for one, tell me on what date Pres. Bush ran the operation that killed Osama BinLaden? Your fantasy about insurance implies that Obama personally went around telling insurance companies they had to get rid of people. Nothing is further from the truth. It was the choice of the Insurance companies to dump these people. Nothing in the ACA forces them to do this. All of these policies were grandfathered into the plan. And as far as saying God in public, wouldn't it be wonderful if people could wear the symbol of that religion in public, could pray in public, attend the church of their choice, and which people Merry Christmas? And wouldn't it be amazing of we could actually have a Christian President? Maybe even 43 of them in a row? No... none of this is gonna work, your brain is too rotted away to recover. We can only hope that when you die, we can use your rotten soul to fertilize some vegetables in the FEMA death camps.
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You Still didn't give me One Thing Obama does that is good for this country. And you can't because he spends most of his time making illegals and other countries happys. He is Obamageddon. He has made this country into communism. And boo153 stop watching CNN. you can't believe that at all because you don't know what it true and what is not because the Democrats only want to give out the good of a Democrat while the Republicans want both. Look at Theodore Roosevelt and his New Deal it was good and bad at the same time. Republicans are saying it is good to have insurance on people but is bad for them to be FORCED to have it before the next tax season. Guess what, all the people who don't have insurance by Obamacare will be fined if they have a job. I don't have one because of this reason. It is stupid to force people to have something forced and shoved at you. And yes there is something wrong with Islam. It is called kill anyone, ANYONE, that doesn't, DOESN'T, believe in their way. And they are the ones that started to kill our, OUR, soldiers first because America backup with Israel. The Muslims don't like that, so they start attacking us here in America and do so until we got in war with them. Osama is not dead because I don't see proof of him being dead. No where, you can't find proof and don't tell me wikipedia.org because that can be edited by someone that is not a user.
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Try actual research. Obama has done ok and in the end the health care law will be good for all
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@brymarshall, I want to apologize to you.. I had assumed that you had a modicum of intelligence, and ability to look at the facts and see what they say. I promise that I will no longer attempt to enlighten you in that mode, but will simple feel compassion for your diminished capacities.
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boo153, you are a democrat and anything a democrat does you support because it make you feel happy. I'm an indepednet person who voted against Obama because I don't believe the way of his health care plan. And thanks for the apology. That made my day because my aunt died after she signed up Obamacare. The doctors said they could do NOTHING for her because it was a small stroke. And boo153, GIVE me PROOF that obama did OKAY and it WILL BE GOOD for us. I want to see it.
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If I don't have Obamacare then I will be fined. I don't want that so I don't sign up for Obamacare, because I can't get any type of insurance at all with the heart problems that my whole family has, and I don't have a job because two reason, one is getting fined if I get Obamacare but I'm not and the other is because there are NO Jobs. AND WHERE IS THE PROOF. I want it after this comment. And no I don't watch TV anymore because I don't have time for it when you live on a farm with nothing to do after the livestock is sold to have money for the next meals, land payments, and all the bills.
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With your heart conditions the ACA is made for you. You cannot be turned down. If you don't live in some of the GOP dominated states then Medicaid has been expanded for those who can't afford insurance. If Medicaid has not been expanded and you don't make much then you are exempt from fines but really... Heart condition, broken legs, ex military (that's a lot of stuff for a 19 yr old) the ACA is MADE for you
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I'm not going for it though. Because what they say is good for me is not good. I rather drink poison than join ACA. Give me a website that says they will accept anyone that has Heart conditions, broken leg with a rod it it, diabetes Type 1, ex military that is sectioned with Section 8 and a person that loves this nation before Obama makes it in a Socialist nation.
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I have a heart condition, had a leg broken during the military time which gave men a Section 8 (for being crazy and nearly causing Friendly Fire), has an ex military Private, still have Type 1 diabetes, and I'm the type of person that says "Obama is the worse president ever because he does nothing for the citizens. Only for the Illegals and other countries that 'say' they 'want' our 'help' to get them 'back on their feet'." What don't you understand.
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*me. Not men
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It happened. I was in the Fort Hood then I got a gun and started shooting near people. They had to let me go. They told me not to get another gun ever.
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Lol and stars bam!
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Add a comment...

Most of those who are educated about Obamacare are against it, as demonstrated in groups like congress, who have read Obamacare and exempted themselves from it (which by the way is against the constitution). Even those people whom are showcased by the media for signing up for Obamacare, Didn't really sign up, they are just paid to say they did, even going as far as to use fake names. Supposedly over 50% of the population is against Obamacare by know, but we really don't know. I am willing to bet that those who support Obamacare will change their minds when they get the first bill for their health insurance, unless Obama decides to exempt them from the paying of their bills, then they will, as they do now, support Obama all the way.

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You are so full of it, You don't know any of the facts, just the Faux News talking points. Virtually every sentence of your post is absolute steer excrement.
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Nice way of saying it bam!
Btw bro, congress is not exempt from it and the people who signed up actually did
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The people in Congress who passed the ACA are indeed educated and are not responsible for promoting the fallacious statements that you have put forth.
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You would think there would be enough negatives about Obamacare that people wouldn't feel the need to make up negatives to say about it. Maybe there really aren't that many negatives.
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I expected this, ,
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Expected what? To be called on your misinformation? Well, duh
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I expected you to say you expected this. The reason I expected you to expect this is that there are more people that support Obamacare or at least the direction it is taking us in than think it's wrong or unconstitutional. Even our Supreme Court has found it to be Constitutional. So you would have been foolish not to expect this.
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Lol wheelhorse
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Ipso sententai.
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I expected you would say that.
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Rotflmao wheelhorse
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The guy is so predictable.
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again, google translate it, ipso sententai
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See what I'm talking about. Isn't that just what you would expect him to say?
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Absolutely!! Lol
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You know, this is to be expected. Someone has something to say but they're scared to say it. So, they put it in Latin so that it sounds like they're smart and shouldn't be challanged. I say if you have something to say, say it. That's the American way.
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I copy and pasted Bro's lattin phrase into Google Translate and got "very sententai". Not helpful.
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Google doesn't do Latin very well.
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@BA: So you're right. If one has something to say, just say it. To require others to perform work to understand what you said, is to have inflated self importance.
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I think that the attempt was to say "very smart", or to that effect. I only know enough Latin to get in trouble, but that would be a good guess.
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I took Latin and it doesn't help bro that he misspelled a word...
sententia
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ah sorry about the misspelled word, my bad. I use Latin because i think it sounds cool, although i will admit that was useless in this situation. It is a phrase that i am fond of, and that i believe can be found strongly in myself, I think you trolls would benefit from the keeping in mind (like i do) that we are all "Ipso sententia". And Boo, I did not say that everyone who signed up or Obamacare didn't I said that a lot of those who were publicized on TV for signing up for Obamacare didn't, sorry if I wasn't specific. And horse, putting it it Latin so i sound like i shouldn't be challenged? I would be horrified if I wasn't challenged, I enjoy conversations like this, they are pleasant to me.
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Pardon my grammar.
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I expected that your response would say almost everything but tell us what you meant to say by using your favorite latin phrase. I like to use a philips head screwdriver. But I wouldn't use a philips head screwdriver to drive an flat head screw. Latin doesn't sound cool in this situation. It sounds pretentious. Say what you have to say as clearly as you can. That's the American way. Blurring and disguising your meaning is what people do to cover up the truth.
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While we are doing phrases, I'll add this from Robert Heilein.. "TANSTAAFL"

Ok, I won't leave you in question.. "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch."

Which describes the ACA well. Someone's gonna pay somehow. And requiring everyone to participate is necessary unless people who want to "opt out" also are willing to give up all emergency care and entry into the system once they get sick.
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@Bro: Referring to us as trolls, essentially because we disagree with you, is not very smart as it is not conducive to rational debate. By making that reference it negates your statement that you are "very smart".
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Wheelhorse, I already said that my using Latin was useless in this situation, that last comment was pointless. Caltex, ever heard of Monty Python?
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Brocookies, I thought you would continue to harp on that pointless position.
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It means "very opinionated", I am fond of the phrase because I believe strongly in reasoned arguments where both party's keep in mind that they are expressing their opinion, even to the point of labeling of evidential beliefs as opinion. It is what I believe is meant by Socrates's saying "The one thing I know, is that I know nothing.". And again, CalTex, have you ever heard of Monty Python?
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You couldn't resist. Even though it is expected, it is still so disappointing.
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@Bro: I'm a huge Monty Python fan. Why do you ask?
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You remember the "argument clinic" skit?
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@Bro: I actually posted a clip of that skit just the other day in support of someone's comment here on Ask. I often see "debates" on Ask devolve into "yes I did - no you didn't" exchanges where no real substance is exchanged.
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Caltex, do you mean like Bro started here when he started all the "I expected this" stuff that was not related to the issues at all?
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Caltex, well the arguing room is what I tend to use as a sort of description for trolls. "This isn't arguing, this is just contradiction" and the character's next entering into the the abuse room is a large part of how I describe trolls in my mind. WheelHorse, my saying " I expected this." wasn't in response to the opinions you put on my answer. I enjoy the fact that you have different opinions then I, reasoned arguments and logically reached opinions are some of the many things necessary to keep a intellectual society. It was in response to the vile and unpolite manner in which you stated them, as is the seemingly common policy amongst the internet.
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Interesting comment Bro and not at all unpredictible. You say you were responding to my vile and unpolite manner. Perhaps you can show us that vile and unpolite manner that I expressed myself in that happened BEFORE you made your "I expected this" comment. Considering that I did not comment here until you made your "I expected this" comment, I think you will be hard pressed to find any vile or unpolite comment by me that was made before your "I expected this" statement. So, now let's add false accusations to the list of poor behaviour on your part.
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I would find better debates among children... haha. This is not debating, this is a war making fun of the other, GLad to see we are all in line with congress.
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All you people need to know is that Obama lies every time he moves his mouth. So Obamacare is communist because everything Obama says never happened.
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Brilliant!! Obamacare is communist. Why? Because everything Obama says never happened. I guess that means that if something didn't happen, it is communist. This is what we get from the genius's who are against Obamacare. Brilliant!!
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I find outbursts like Bry's to be unhelpful and rantish, but Wheel, I expected better that replying in kind. Now, I can sympathize with a rash decision to respond quickly and unthoughtfully, but c'mon
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v I honestly believe that most of the people that are against Obamacare are idiotic in their arguments as bry. I do not apologize but instead include by reference my last comment.
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@Wheel: I find people with Bry's exaggerated disdain for Obamacare to be almost amusing (if they weren't so dangerous). I listened to a comment by Charles Osgood on CBS radio which was quite insightful. He said it is interesting how before Obamacare, insurance companies where evil. People were constantly complaining about the evil things they were doing like cancelling policies because you get sick, or charge exorbitant premiums, or simply deny insurance due to pre-existing conditions. But suddenly, Obamacare comes along and insurance companies are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Everyone thinks the plan they have is the best there is and will defend it to the death. It reminds me of the protestors at the anti-Obamacare rallies in the 2009 with their placards saying "Keep government out of my Medicare".
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I support Obamacare and I have thought and continue to think that private insurance companies either will not or can not meet the health care coverage needs of America. They have fought most efficiencies that would lower the cost of insurance to the American people. Since they refuse to cooperate with the American people, they should be out of the business of providing coverage for this essential need of nearly every American. When it has been proven over many years that other countries spend far less on health care with far better outcomes overall, it's time for a big change in the US.
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I agree. I would have preferred a single-payer plan, but we had to settle for a compromise lest we be labeled communists.
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That's right Cal. They think Obamacare is communism for goodness sake.
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Yep, as it turned out, they labeled us that anyway, so we squandered a chance at real health care reform.
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Add a comment...

I cannot support something that I think is unconstitutional. Our country is about freedoms, and forcing people to buy something is not what I would call constitutional. What was suppose to happen was a regulation of insurance companies, not of the people.

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So I'm guessing you don't have a drivers license? Or auto insurance? Or home insurance? All of these things you are "forced" to do. But as a matter of fact, you are NOT forced to buy health insurance. If you wish to not have insurance you may do so, by paying a small tax. It's stupid, but it's up to you.
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Having a Universal Health Care is a GOOD thing! Think about it...... If someone needs medical treatment but they can't afford it, so should they just die?
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Well, Linster, that is exactly what Senator Paul has said should happen.. If you can't get insurance or can't pay for it, you should just die.
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I do have a car and yes it is insured, but I chose to own a car. I chose to own a house and I insure that and it contents as well. However those are my choices. I could use public transportation and I could rent.

That "small tax" is small for 2014. It more than triples in 2015 and doubles that figure for 2016. I have insurance and Obamacare won't effect it much, however there was a time where I was making just over minimum wage and I couldn't afford insurance. There was no room in my budget for it. I was making more than the exempt amount, so I would be screwed by this plan.
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Most cases are not a do or die situation, and when they are you cannot be refused treatment. I realize there are some people that needs this but to force it on everyone is wrong.
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Actually no, you wouldn't. Because you would qualify for federal support or subsidy to make it affordable. If you were making near minimum wage you would qualify. Did you actually look to see? Or is it just your "opinion" as told to you by Faux News?
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I have checked several sources throughout the last few days. I am telling you if it cost as little as $20 a month I wouldn't have been able to afford it at that time of my life. I was making roughly $11k and you have to make $9700 or less for it to be free.
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gatorblu - Pay no attention to the lame comments. They haven't a clue what's going on.
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@Gatorblu: Your understanding of the Constitution is incorrect. You are required to pay income taxes and payroll taxes which includes Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment insurance. As per the Constitution, Congress has the right to tax it's citizens.
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Gator, at that time you would have qualified under the expansion of Medicaid. Yes, you choose to own a car but you cannot choose when you will be in an accident/get sick. As for do or die situations, part of the ACA addresses preventative care so we don't have to foot the bill for as many of those
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Nerosmom The obamacare fee is not a tax it is a penalty fee for not purchasing something and that is wrong. Calling it a tax does not change what it is.
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Yeah, I would agree, except that the SCOTUS has said that it's a tax, and so is constitutional.
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Add a comment...

It's a tricky question. I don't like Obamacare. But not because it does too much but because it does too little to fix our health care system. Still, I support it because you have to start somewhere. There are about one third of Americans that think the way I do about Obamacare. So, if you take that position into account, you really have two thirds of Americans that would rather have Obamacare than nothing at all.

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Count me in there.. I already get substantial benefit from ACA.
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Correct.
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I already have terrific health insurance. But every American deserves to have good health care and Obamacare is a step in that direction.
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I don't need it but support it for people who do
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Support it for people who do need it but you don't need it is like supporting a idiot that knows nothing of crossing a street.
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I guess you should know about idiots that can't cross the street. Need some help?
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Lol wheelhorse!!
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I support what he's trying to do and if you call it the ACA and break down the components, then more people like it than not. Just shows you people are easily swayed

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And they are brainwashed like you. Obamacare is not good for anyone. you can't have the same health plan you want. Doctor's are quitting their jobs because the paperwork they have to fill out in January when Obamacare is passed and it is all hassle.
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Please try real facts sometime
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THEY ARE REAL FACTS. What the fox news you idiot. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED SO YOU ARE GOING TO HELL FOR SUPPORTING OBAMA.
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I'm beginning to think you have a problem comprehending
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And once again facts disappear and name calling ensues. It's pretty much all your type has
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Then give me proof that Obamacare is good for people that have nothing but problems when the website was a fraud and that was all over every news.
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You can't so your argument is invalid.
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Actually I have a life so you have to wait for answers. Google ACA success stories or ask some of the folks on this site. There are already good things happening
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Yeah for different countries and the illegals. Not for a citizen of USA. Obama doesn't care about us because his first term, he focused on countries that are against us: all of the Middle East.
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Wow, you don't have a clue, do you? For a start? Illegals can't participate in the ACA
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I call b******t on that. They are participating in the ACA because they want 'free insurance.' Nothing is free. And he focused his attention to other countries that are against us because he is CRIPPLING this country. I said crippling in caps because it is f***ing true.
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A) the ACA isn't free
B) illegals cannot participate
C) the person who did us the most damage overseas was bush. He's the one who made the Middle East more unstable.
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F*** you.
Even if Bush stayed out, the Muslims would have been worse than now. So don't blame bush for that. Nothing is free but since the illegals are getting ACA because they voted for Obama and they are given secret messages every three weeks to cheat the system, like the rich did with their money.
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You have gone so far out in left field with this crap, you're not even close to believe able. But that's ok, someday you'll grow up and learn from your mistakes. Buh-bye!
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You sir don't know what a muslim does because you never incounted a full one like I did. They want us dead. And I know illegals that get they way to get secrets from the government so they don't have to do anything. And the rich cheated there way of having money in different countries and USA can't touch it without the pass code and the number.
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Add a comment...

In my area no

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So @ketchup, what is your area? Give us the statistics in your area? With what documentation?
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California,US do you know where that is?
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@Ketchup: California, huh? Here's a quote from the first paragraph of the Field Poll referenced below: "Two in three expect implementation of the law overall to be successful, and similar majorities also believe the state will achieve many of its more specific goals, such as reducing the number of uninsured, providing consumers with more insurance choices, and providing Californians with better consumer protections." (Source: http://www.field.com/fieldpollonline/subscribers/Rls2450.pdf)
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Lol cal, ever heard of that place??
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Having lived here for the past 39 years, yeah, I'm pretty familiar.
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:) I about died when he asked you that
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While I spent many years in CA, I (for the last 40 years) have been a resident of PA. A state where we have a TeaBag governor who passed on the whole ACA process everywhere he could. It is now coming back to bite him in the posterior portion. I have done the research, and am a firm supporter of ACA, wishing of course that it had simply been an expansion of Medicare, which has worked very well for a long time.
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Bam, having lived in pa... My condolences...:)
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I too live in PA. I find it strange that despite your so colourfully put "teabagging" governor, PA has voted democrat almost every year
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Yeah, that was one of those 2010 accidents. We had a great governor, but he couldn't run again.